Sound Practices Mailing List Files - Volume 2
=========================================================================
From: John Niven <jn@cypress.com>
Subject: [JN] Re: "Wacky wood" and one liners asshole...
Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:45:53 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n434
Allen Wright wrote:
> 3/ Send ***ONLY*** txt messages to the list - turn off all the fancy
> options that double or triple the message count.
Woops!
I just checked my email settings which was set to editing in HTML. I
think this means that, provided the list can receive HTML, I don't get a
warning and the option of sending it as text only. So appended it again,
in case anyone missed it.
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
James,
What's "whacky wood"? I'm currently cogitating a back-loaded horn and
struggling with my rusty geometry, and the problem of making the
structure
buildable with basic woodworking skills.
For a large horn, I'm assuming plywood is a better choice than mdf,
since
it has greater strength. My basic layout requires 3 one dimensional
curves, and I would prefer do do these with smooth curves than piecewise
approximations. I was wondering if I could use sheet Aluminum, but
whacky
wood sounds interesting :-)
Three more questions:-
1) Most designs I've seen start with a "parallel sides" assumption
(Hedlund horn included). This is presumably for simplicity. Is there any
sonic benefit in using flat sides but angled in a Vee shape? This would
conform better to the theoretical expansion.
2) Why do you recommend Exponential, or Hyperbolic contours over
Tractrix?
3) For a back-loaded bass horn, is a square or a rectangle mouth
preferred?
The Hedlund has tall narrow mouth. Presumably dictated by the parallel
sides? Does this help imaging?
Actually that was more than three questions, and the more I think the
more
I come up with :-)
Any advice would be appreciated,
John
James Melhuish wrote:
> site. Or you could design your own. You could use bending plywood
> (whacky wood) between two sheets of plywood or MDF and create a smooth
> curve. Use an exponential or hyperbolic contour with m=0.6 or 0.8, you
- -
_\|/
Q John Niven (jn@cypress.com)
/ \ Staff Product Engineer
/ o\ Cypress Semiconductor
( \/ 3901 North First Street
|\ San Jose,CA 95134
| \ Telephone 408-456-1868
L L
=========================================================================
From: "Sylvain Giguere" <pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca>
Subject: [JN] Walking rollies...
Date: Sun, 11 Apr 1999 21:24:11 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n120
Christian says...
<<...and when you bend the leads of a rollie, it becomes a walkie...>>
Well... I'd bet we can find another trick to identify a rollie from a
walkie... hum, say the rollie is laying flat on the table with its legs wide
spread (blush..) in strait line with the body of the cap. Then, you have a
strait line, right? like an.. "axle"? then, may be we could name it.. Axial?
:)
Bad me.
Sylvain <s>
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Walkman Pro
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 18:35:25 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n045
I'd probably go with the D5, it's more robust and has better heads...
Peace
Ian McPhail wrote:
>
> Joefolks, the Sony Walkman Pro WM D6 was (still in production) a
> classic, beautifully built, excellent performance and ultra reliable.
> Would you still buy one today? The alternative being one of the
> plethora of portable MiniDisc recorders available today. Most of
> them appear to be built to the lowest cost and throwaway items if
> any breakdowns occur. Also the jury is divided on their dubious
> digital superiority.
> The Walkman Pro (well, we can't all afford a Nagra) appeals to me
> as deliciously retro (already?) analog, high performance, made of
> metal and built to the highest standards.
> regards Ian
>
> Ian McPhail i.mcphail@rmit.edu.au
> RMIT Chem and Met Eng Dept 110
> GPO Box 2476V
> Melbourne 3001
> Australia
> tel +61 3 9925 2408
> fax +61 3 9925 3746
- --
Roscoe Primrose
- -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com -- http://www.aiko.com/roscoe --
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
=========================================================================
From: JE <je2a3@erols.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Walkman Pro
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 19:12:44 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n045
Roscoe Primrose wrote:
> I'd probably go with the D5, it's more robust and has better heads...
I have to agree with this statement and add that the TCD5M has RCA line
in/out jacks and 1/4" mic inputs instead of the miniature jacks on the
WMD6C. It sounds better too.
I use/own both decks and for live recording, the TCD5M sees duty 95% of the
time and after 14 years, it's still going strong.
Regards,
Joseph
=========================================================================
From: "pagebleu" <pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca>
Subject: [JN] Walkman Pro
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 22:48:26 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n045
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BE5935.4C685FC0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ian, yes, the DM6 is sure a "classic". Nicely styled and solidly built =
as well as good sounding it seems. I agree that the minidiscs may be =
cheapo-built, but there are alternatives between them and the Nagras.. =
<s> I think.
I own a nice little TCD-D8 portable dat (yes, I hear you say digitis..) =
but the build quality is impressive, it is reliable, and honnestly =
(shame on me..) I almost can't tell the difference between a cd being =
played on my Meridian and a dat copy replayed on my D8... (shame on =
me...) Bastien Bouchard (here on the list) and I, have made some =
listening tests on his sound projects between the minidisc copy vs cd =
recorded sound takes... gee... would I like to say the minidisc was =
bad.. it wasn't. Just some slight hardening on the edges and here again, =
it was very subtle and discutable...
So, there might be hope for the empty wallet (like mine:) and the ones =
who look for a cheap way to realise decent recordings on the go. I sure =
look forward to the Montreal International Jazz Festival, next july...
Sylvain Gigu=E8re
- ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BE5935.4C685FC0
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<STYLE></STYLE>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 5.00.0910.1309"' name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Ian, yes, the DM6 is sure a "classic". Nicely styled and =
solidly=20
built as well as good sounding it seems. I agree that the minidiscs may =
be=20
cheapo-built, but there are alternatives between them and the Nagras.. =
<s>=20
I think.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I own a nice little TCD-D8 portable dat (yes, I hear you say =
digitis..) but=20
the build quality is impressive, it is reliable, and honnestly (shame on =
me..) I=20
almost can't tell the difference between a cd being played on my =
Meridian and a=20
dat copy replayed on my D8... (shame on me...) Bastien Bouchard (here on =
the=20
list) and I, have made some listening tests on his sound projects =
between the=20
minidisc copy vs cd recorded sound takes... gee... would I like to say =
the=20
minidisc was bad.. it wasn't. Just some slight hardening on the edges =
and here=20
again, it was very subtle and discutable...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>So, there might be hope for the empty wallet (like mine:) and the =
ones who=20
look for a cheap way to realise decent recordings on the go. I sure look =
forward=20
to the Montreal International Jazz Festival, next july...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sylvain Gigu=E8re</DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0051_01BE5935.4C685FC0--
=========================================================================
From: "Ian McPhail" <i.mcphail@rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: [JN] Walkman Pro
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 09:53:44 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n045
Joefolks, the Sony Walkman Pro WM D6 was (still in production) a
classic, beautifully built, excellent performance and ultra reliable.
Would you still buy one today? The alternative being one of the
plethora of portable MiniDisc recorders available today. Most of
them appear to be built to the lowest cost and throwaway items if
any breakdowns occur. Also the jury is divided on their dubious
digital superiority.
The Walkman Pro (well, we can't all afford a Nagra) appeals to me
as deliciously retro (already?) analog, high performance, made of
metal and built to the highest standards.
regards Ian
Ian McPhail i.mcphail@rmit.edu.au
RMIT Chem and Met Eng Dept 110
GPO Box 2476V
Melbourne 3001
Australia
tel +61 3 9925 2408
fax +61 3 9925 3746
=========================================================================
From: "Ian McPhail" <i.mcphail@rmit.EDU.AU>
Subject: [JN] re: Walkman Pro, TCD5M
Date: Tue, 16 Feb 1999 11:49:14 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n045
Joefolks, thanks for the reponse. Someone mentioned the TCD5M,
I can't find any reference to this model on the Sony site.
Any Clues?
regards Ian
Ian McPhail i.mcphail@rmit.edu.au
RMIT Chem and Met Eng Dept 110
GPO Box 2476V
Melbourne 3001
Australia
tel +61 3 9925 2408
fax +61 3 9925 3746
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: [JN] Wall Socket War Stories was: Part 5 Shunt Regulators
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2000 18:10:34 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n482
Hi Chris, All:
Hey, I have a story like that, two actually.
The first is along the lines of, "Boy Genius Strikes Again." One day
after school, at the age of about 8 or 9, I watched one those science shows
they aired live back in the 50s. That particular day the construction
project was a simple little electric motor that was intended to run on one
of those great big 1.5V dry cells, the ones with the cute little brass,
screw-down connections on top. That looked like the neatest thing so I built
one the next day after school - BUT - I had no battery to run it with - SO -
I just plugged it in . . . . I was in my sock feet on the basement floor, so
it's far more by good luck than good management that you have to put up with
me :>)
The second is rather more of the, " . . . . don't assume nuttin' "
variety and took place about 5 years later.
I used to repeatedly sign out a book from the library on "Electronics
for Children" or something like that . . . . I don't really recall the title
but I surely remember the author, "Harry Zarchy." I damned near did myself
in with one of his tube amp circuits . . . a circuit from which he'd omitted
the output transformer (NOW you know why I'm interested in these things.)
I certainly was not about to second guess the author of a *library book*
so I just built the amp, two of them actually, - line powered actually - and
put one of them in a box with my bedside regenerative AM radio to gain it up
to run a speaker.
Between a flourescent desk lamp with a previously undetected ground
fault and my having plugged the radio/amp to wrong way to, I managed one
night while DX-ing in the dark to light myself up by trying to turn on the
lamp while holding the metal, vernier tuning dial in the other hand. I took
120VAC + 300VDC straight across the thorax . . . . I ached for a week . . .
Now let me tell ya about my first girlfriend . . . . LOL
Bill - PEARL, Inc.
=====================
Chris Beck EuropaChris@netscape.net wrote:
> I think I was about the same age when I half-way unplugged the nightlight in
> my room and thought I'd hang the metal chain collar of a stuffed dog over the
> plug prongs (stuffed dog not in the collar - I'm a geek, not a sadist...).
> WOW, did the fire fly! Turned the socket black, blew the breaker, and gave me
> numb arms for a few hours. Lucky I didn't kill myself.
>
> Chris
>
>
> SBench@aol.com wrote:
>
>> A little history. When I was 3 I stuck a bobby pin (remember those?)
>> into a wall outlet. Changed my future ;-)
>> Didn't do the wall outlet much good though, according to my parents.
>> I still remember the incident, but don't remember the thought process of
>> why I thought that might be a good thing to do 8-]
>>
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Steve
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________
> Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at
> http://webmail.netscape.com.
=========================================================================
From: "J. Gordon Rankin" <waudio@cinti.net>
Subject: [JN] Wall Wart supply boxes???
Date: Thu, 21 Sep 00 16:12:17 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n668
Gang,
Has any one seen these things. They are the plastic enclosures that are
used for making WALL Wart type supplies. Jameco use to have them in two
sizes. They actually have the two or three prongs built into them.
Any help would be appreciated!
Gordon
=====> Wavelength Audio <=====
mailto:waudio@cinti.net
mailto:wavelength@fuse.net
http://www.WavelengthAudio.com
ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: [JN] Wanted: 2" punch for defib caps
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 20:28:32 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n759
Anyone remember those 36uF caps that Doc Bottlehead sold a long time
ago? I mounted some from below the chassis with a 2 1/8" punch I got on
ebay, and it works fine, but a 2" punch is all that's needed. For the
current project I'd like to save a little metal. So by any chance, does
anyone have an extra Greenlee 2" they'd like to sell or swap for?
- --Rick
=========================================================================
From: bill gardner <wg44929@navix.net>
Subject: [JN] wanted 414 8B
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 09:14:38 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n202
Greetings and Salutations : Would like to purchase a pair of Altec 414 8 B
woofers .
Thanks and best William Gardner
800 348 4539 week days
402 330 0774 fax
=========================================================================
From: William Gardner <wg44929@mail.navix.net>
Subject: [JN] wanted 414
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 11:37:15 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n496
Hi Gang Members : I need one only - Altec 414 8-B or C , I have a single of
each , BUT if you have a pair don't be bashfull, I'll take a pair . Have
started yet another project ....... just what we all need , (>: right ?
A pair of Onken Petite boxs TIA and as always , appreciate your help .
Bill Gardner
=========================================================================
From: ALEXSCIFI@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] wanted 414
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 15:50:58 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n496
In a message dated 2000-03-25 12:49:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
wg44929@mail.navix.net writes:
> Hi Gang Members : I need one only - Altec 414 8-B or C , I have a single of
> each , BUT if you have a pair don't be bashfull, I'll take a pair . Have
> started yet another project ....... just what we all need , (>: right ?
> A pair of Onken Petite boxs TIA and as always , appreciate your help .
> Bill Gardner
>
>
Hi Bill
May I ask what constitues a "mini Onken" enclosure?
Thanks
Alex
=========================================================================
From: "Kurt Th. Steffensen" <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: [JN] Wanted:5675 curves
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 18:29:41 +0300
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n277
Dear all.
As some of you might know , I accidently lost a huge collection of
data-books etc. , some years ago.
One tube I found interesting , but never came to use is the 5675.
I have a bunch of these.
As far as I remember , it WAS suitable for audio , however , with relative low bias ,
low u , and not particual low Ri or high S , it was not really a candidate to anything in
particual.
Now , I think , I happens to need a tube , such as this , but would like to be sure , before
I waste a lot of time , examining its merits....
The curves , sure would help a lot here.
Does anyone has these at hand ?
If any of you need some data-sheets , please , do not hesitate to try me.
I have colllected , quite many books again , and these with the ones , I was lucky enough ,
not to loose , makes a good library.
Sincerely
- - Kurt Steffensen
=========================================================================
From: "Sikking, Peter" <peter.sikking@nomura.co.uk>
Subject: [JN] Wanted: A few good...
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2000 18:30:28 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n686
Guys,
I'm looking for ceramic novar/magnoval (same thing, right?) sockets.
Actually, I would not mind buying 100 of them if somebody has them.
Just in case they come in flavours: I need the ones with a hole in the
middle for the tube tip.
Later,
--Peter
: music lover : ultra-fi builder : ui designer & developer : on drums...
: from:amsterdam@london.uk : +44 20 7521 1070 : facsimile +44 20 7521 3686
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=========================================================================
From: Peter Boser <pboser@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: A few good...
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 07:56:26 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n688
Looks like Antique Electronic Supply has them for $5
each. Look here:
http://www.tubesandmore.com/
Pete
- --- Scott Walters <sfwalters@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Peter, I tried to send this yesterday but it
> didn't appear on the list so
> I'll try again. Check the Svetlana Web site. I
> believe they have a socket to
> meet your requirements. The number is SK509 I
> think. The only rub would be
> their price, these being new rather than used parts
> from the junk box or ham
> swap meet, expense may be a little higher than you
> had in mind if you really
> do intend to purchase 100 of them.
>
> Svetlana Tube Sockets
>
> "Peter Sikking " wrote:
>
> > Guys,
> >
> > I'm looking for ceramic novar/magnoval (same
> thing, right?) sockets.
> >
>
> This goes along with what I've always been told.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
From: Peter Boser <pboser@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: A few good...
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 08:00:11 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n688
Looks like Antique Electronic Supply has them for $5
each. Look here:
http://www.tubesandmore.com/
Pete
- --- Scott Walters <sfwalters@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Peter, I tried to send this yesterday but it
> didn't appear on the list so
> I'll try again. Check the Svetlana Web site. I
> believe they have a socket to
> meet your requirements. The number is SK509 I
> think. The only rub would be
> their price, these being new rather than used parts
> from the junk box or ham
> swap meet, expense may be a little higher than you
> had in mind if you really
> do intend to purchase 100 of them.
>
> Svetlana Tube Sockets
>
> "Peter Sikking " wrote:
>
> > Guys,
> >
> > I'm looking for ceramic novar/magnoval (same
> thing, right?) sockets.
> >
>
> This goes along with what I've always been told.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
From: Peter Boser <pboser@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: A few good...
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 08:01:13 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n688
Looks like Antique Electronic Supply has them for $5
each. Look here:
http://www.tubesandmore.com/
Pete
- --- Scott Walters <sfwalters@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Peter, I tried to send this yesterday but it
> didn't appear on the list so
> I'll try again. Check the Svetlana Web site. I
> believe they have a socket to
> meet your requirements. The number is SK509 I
> think. The only rub would be
> their price, these being new rather than used parts
> from the junk box or ham
> swap meet, expense may be a little higher than you
> had in mind if you really
> do intend to purchase 100 of them.
>
> Svetlana Tube Sockets
>
> "Peter Sikking " wrote:
>
> > Guys,
> >
> > I'm looking for ceramic novar/magnoval (same
> thing, right?) sockets.
> >
>
> This goes along with what I've always been told.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
From: Peter Boser <pboser@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: A few good...
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 08:01:29 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n688
Looks like Antique Electronic Supply has them for $5
each. Look here:
http://www.tubesandmore.com/
Pete
- --- Scott Walters <sfwalters@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> Peter, I tried to send this yesterday but it
> didn't appear on the list so
> I'll try again. Check the Svetlana Web site. I
> believe they have a socket to
> meet your requirements. The number is SK509 I
> think. The only rub would be
> their price, these being new rather than used parts
> from the junk box or ham
> swap meet, expense may be a little higher than you
> had in mind if you really
> do intend to purchase 100 of them.
>
> Svetlana Tube Sockets
>
> "Peter Sikking " wrote:
>
> > Guys,
> >
> > I'm looking for ceramic novar/magnoval (same
> thing, right?) sockets.
> >
>
> This goes along with what I've always been told.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
From: Peter Boser <pboser@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: A few good...
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2000 08:03:12 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n688
Looks like Antique Electronic Supply has them for $5
each. Look here:
http://www.tubesandmore.com/
Pete
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Photos - 35mm Quality Prints, Now Get 15 Free!
http://photos.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
From: Scott Walters <sfwalters@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: A few good...
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 08:50:29 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n688
Peter, I tried to send this yesterday but it didn't appear on the list so
I'll try again. Check the Svetlana Web site. I believe they have a socket to
meet your requirements. The number is SK509 I think. The only rub would be
their price, these being new rather than used parts from the junk box or ham
swap meet, expense may be a little higher than you had in mind if you really
do intend to purchase 100 of them.
Svetlana Tube Sockets
"Peter Sikking " wrote:
> Guys,
>
> I'm looking for ceramic novar/magnoval (same thing, right?) sockets.
>
This goes along with what I've always been told.
Hope this helps.
Scott
=========================================================================
From: Scott Walters <sfwalters@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: A few good...
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:10:35 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n688
I just can't get the hang of this html thing!
The url is: <http.www.svstlana.com/docs/tubeframe.html>
Scott
>
=========================================================================
From: David Dlugos <planet10@pinc.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: A few good...
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:40:14 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n688
fixed,
>The url is: <http://www.svstlana.com/docs/tubeframe.html>
___________________
The box said Windows 9x or better, so i bought a Macintosh
=========================================================================
From: David Dlugos <planet10@pinc.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: A few good...
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 09:42:22 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n688
try again,
forgot to check the spelling,
>The url is: <http://www.svetlana.com/docs/tubeframe.html>
___________________
The box said Windows 9x or better, so i bought a Macintosh
=========================================================================
From: "hopper chu" <achu@medcaminc.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Wanted: A few good...
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2000 11:03:22 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n689
Hi All,
Just a word of caution....
The socket made by Svetlana is different from the ones sold by the Antique
Ele. Supply. If I remember correctly from I own experiences, the holes in
the SK509 socket is a little bigger than ones in the AES. For example, 6CJ3
(with a bit thinner pins) will fit into AES socket nicely but will be a bit
loose in the SK509. E55L with a thicker pins will NOT fit into the AES ones
without the risk of breaking the tube base...
hopper
=========================================================================
From: Tom Ronan <tronan@enteract.com>
Subject: [JN] Wanted: Altec 414 drivers, and 802s
Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 04:12:44 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n315
Anyone out there have a pair of the 414 drivers for sale? They're the
Altec driver like the 416 but only 12". I'm also looking for a pair of 802
drivers or 806 drivers.
Please send private email with condition and price!
Thanks,
Tom
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Tom Ronan 1045 W. Montana Chicago, IL 60614
Lowther America http://www.lowther-america.com
26 Preamp & Oris 150 Horns http://www.enteract.com/~tronan
=========================================================================
From: Rimmer deVries <rdevries@ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Altec 802
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 11:26:22 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n018
Hi All:
I need a nice pair of Altec 802 or 806 compression deivers, alnico,
Altec aluminum diaphragms, aluminum phase plugs.
If any of you have a pair for sale please let me know,
Regrds,
Rimmer deVries
=========================================================================
From: rcjones1@mmm.com
Subject: [JN] Wanted, and capacitor question.
Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 08:52:27 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n880
I am looking for a surplus 1KW isolation transformer. Any ideas?
Also, How are the Nichicon Muse capacitors for sound quality? I am looking
for some 200uf / 100v or so caps (40 total) which will be used in an output
stage. Anyone have any recommendations for caps? (I cannot afford to buy
40 BG!)
Thanks!
Richard Jones
=========================================================================
From: William Eckle <wmeckle@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: [JN]:Wanted: bass-reflex help.
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 09:36:19 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n173
At 01:24 PM 6/9/99 +0200, Torbj=F8rn Lien wrote:
>Ok. Here is some driver spec's:
>
>JBL 2240 18" Bass unit:
>I want the box's f-low limit to be around 33-36Hz.
>No need to go deeper than that.=20
Hi Torbjorn:
Running the JBL 2240 through "Top Box", for minumum ripple (0) calls=
for a 98.7 liter vented box,
tuned to 43.5 Hz, with a -3 db point of 54.4 Hz and a sensitivity of 98.8=
db at 2.83v.
Sorry, looks like you need a true subwoofer driver.
<bold><color><param>ffff,0000,0000</param>-=3DBill Eckle=3D-
</color></bold>wmeckle@uswest.net
<italic><color><param>0000,0000,ffff</param>Phoenix, Arizona
USA</color></italic>
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Lien?=" <mdrivekl@online.no>
Subject: [JN]:Wanted: bass-reflex help.
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 13:24:09 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n173
Hello all.
In the old days I used to build all kinds of
speakers. It's been a while, but this summer
I hope to find time to make apair of dedicated
bass/PA boxes.
I've had limited success with bass-reflex speakers.
Earlier on I've made designs that were *thoroughly*
by the book,-meaning measuring out Thiele-Small
parameters on units, using Dickason's "The Loudspeaker coockbook" to
find alignments,-and make and tune
the box according to the receipt. And everything
the old fashioned way. A tiresome process!
The results were ok I suppose,-Today I feel they were limited by raw
driver quality.
Later on I've made afew nice cabs for bass-geetar,
just using a "that looks about right" principle.
(This ehm,-..thumb principle work rather well:
1: Make the box as large as possibly convenient.
2: Make the vent-area as large as possibly convenient.
3: Tune the duct-lenght to get
F-box resonnance equal to raw driver resonnance,-or
alittle higher....)
........
This time I'll make a pair of 18" cabs, using the
somewhat old JBL 2240's. And with a little more
scientific approach..
So I was thinking: Since there is all these
Loudspeaker-designing tools for PC about these days,-
Calsod or Leap or whatever they're all called,-
I bet/HOPE! someone on the list could just punch in
the values, and get out the cab-parameters for an
ok consept. (Would make me happy..)
Ok. Here is some driver spec's:
JBL 2240 18" Bass unit:
Diameter: 45,72cm.
Vas : 481,4 Litres
X-max : O,56 cm.
Z-nom : 8ohms
Re : 6ohms
Qm : 2,2
Qe : 0,25
Qts : 0,23
Fs : 30Hz
I want the box's f-low limit to be around 33-36Hz.
No need to go deeper than that.
The electrical Q of driver will probably be impaired
by around 0,5-0,8 ohm output resistanse from amp/cables.
The box's will be built of 3/4 birch-plywood. They will
ofcource be well braced with internal shelfs etc., so
that stiffness to lo-frequencies is,-"sufficient"...
I know the ability to handle transients , and lo
distortion,- all connects to cab-size...
Lets just say I want both a manageable cab size
and sound quality to balance...
Someone?!
TIA!
Regards
Torbjoern, Norway
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h J.-M." <lecleach@cgi.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: [JN]:Wanted: bass-reflex help.
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 16:46:41 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n173
- ----------
> De : Torbjørn Lien <mdrivekl@online.no>
> A : sound@lists.io.com
> Objet : [JN]:Wanted: bass-reflex help.
> Date : mercredi 9 juin 1999 13:24
> So I was thinking: Since there is all these
> Loudspeaker-designing tools for PC about these days,-
> Calsod or Leap or whatever they're all called,-
> I bet/HOPE! someone on the list could just punch in
> the values, and get out the cab-parameters for an
> ok consept. (Would make me happy..)
>
> Ok. Here is some driver spec's:
>
> JBL 2240 18" Bass unit:
> Diameter: 45,72cm.
> Vas : 481,4 Litres
> X-max : O,56 cm.
> Z-nom : 8ohms
> Re : 6ohms
> Qm : 2,2
> Qe : 0,25
> Qts : 0,23
> Fs : 30Hz
>
> I want the box's f-low limit to be around 33-36Hz.
> No need to go deeper than that.
Hello,
I don't use such software but a simple spreadsheet to calculate the
response curve of conventionnal bass-reflex.
If you don't allow a bump more than 1dB at the tuning frequency, there is
no chance that in a conventionnal bass reflex the JBL 2240 will reach 35Hz.
The optimim bass reflex for the JBL2240 are 55 (alignment n = 5.7 giving a
127 liters box) to 65 Hz (alignment n = 4, giving a 89 liters box), the
last alignment is the best one for that loudspeaker IMHO but 65 Hz is not
specially deep bass.
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Lien?=" <mdrivekl@online.no>
Subject: Re: [JN]:Wanted: bass-reflex help.
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 17:47:51 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n173
Hello Jean Michel,
Thanks for looking into this.
I wrote:
> > So I was thinking: Since there is all these
> > Loudspeaker-designing tools for PC about these days,-
> > Calsod or Leap or whatever they're all called,-
> > I bet/HOPE! someone on the list could just punch in
> > the values, and get out the cab-parameters for an
> > ok consept. (Would make me happy..)
> >
> > Ok. Here is some driver spec's:
> >
> > JBL 2240 18" Bass unit:
> > Diameter: 45,72cm.
> > Vas : 481,4 Litres
> > X-max : O,56 cm.
> > Z-nom : 8ohms
> > Re : 6ohms
> > Qm : 2,2
> > Qe : 0,25
> > Qts : 0,23
> > Fs : 30Hz
> >
> > I want the box's f-low limit to be around 33-36Hz.
> > No need to go deeper than that.
>
Jean Michel wrote:
>
> I don't use such software but a simple spreadsheet
> to calculate the response curve of conventionnal
> bass-reflex.
>
> If you don't allow a bump more than 1dB at the tuning
> frequency, there is no chance that in a conventionnal bass > reflex
the JBL 2240 will reach 35Hz.
> The optimim bass reflex for the JBL2240 are 55
> (alignment n = 5.7 giving a 127 liters box) to 65 Hz > (alignment n =
4, giving a 89 liters box), the
> last alignment is the best one for that loudspeaker IMHO
> but 65 Hz is not specially deep bass.
>
UhHu! That doesn't look particularly promising regarding
*bass*. And I somehow have a feeling that both 127 and 90 liters is on
the small side for an 18"'er to breathe...
As I understand it a lower tuning/bigger box will
produce an uneven responce with first a premature rollof
and then a bump,-and you write that this is the result of the
"conventional bass-reflex" tuning..
Maybe the problem is the Qe? It could easily be destroyd
by an encreased output resistance.(The thing is planned
used with a variable-n.feedback tube amp.)
Could a drive resistance in the 4-8ohm area allow for
using a somewhat bigger box with lowered tuning?
I could also use more violent means and alter the units
parameters,-(But this is somewhat difficult to reverse.)
A wash-out and recoating of the surrounds together with
mild-destructive surgery to the spider could lover Fres..
Other wievs/sollutions to this?
TIA
Torbjoern, Norway
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: WBamb83392@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN]:Wanted: bass-reflex help.
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:06:58 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n174
In a message dated 6/9/99 7:30:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mdrivekl@online.no writes:
<< Ok. Here is some driver spec's:
JBL 2240 18" Bass unit:
Diameter: 45,72cm.
Vas : 481,4 Litres
X-max : O,56 cm.
Z-nom : 8ohms
Re : 6ohms
Qm : 2,2
Qe : 0,25
Qts : 0,23
Fs : 30Hz
I want the box's f-low limit to be around 33-36Hz.
No need to go deeper than that. >>
8-10 cubic feet tuned to 32Hz and you should be perfectly happy. I've
already built many such cabinets for 5 string (Low B) basses, and they work
fantastically. This alignment is called Extended Bass Shelf and is
incredibly useful. Bass guitars have a built in bass boost from the
increasing string length as one plays lower notes in addition to the
frequency response of typical pickups. This completely annuls the shallow
droop in the bass response from an EBS alignment. As long as the knee in the
frequency response coincides with the the pitch of the lowest note on the
bass, all is well. Outdoors, where there is no reinforcement of the bass, a
simple twist of the typical bass knob will give your EBS cabinet a flat
response. It's coincidence that typical bass boost controls flatten the
response of EBS alignments, but it's a handy coincidence. Indoors, the
response of the typicalroom flattens the response of an EBS enclosure.
- -Eric Bamberg
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN]:Wanted: bass-reflex help.
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 14:11:38 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n174
WBamb83392@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/9/99 7:30:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> mdrivekl@online.no writes:
>
> << Ok. Here is some driver spec's:
>
> JBL 2240 18" Bass unit:
> Diameter: 45,72cm.
> Vas : 481,4 Litres
> X-max : O,56 cm.
> Z-nom : 8ohms
> Re : 6ohms
> Qm : 2,2
> Qe : 0,25
> Qts : 0,23
> Fs : 30Hz
>
> I want the box's f-low limit to be around 33-36Hz.
> No need to go deeper than that. >>
>
> 8-10 cubic feet tuned to 32Hz and you should be perfectly happy. I've
> already built many such cabinets for 5 string (Low B) basses, and they work
> fantastically. This alignment is called Extended Bass Shelf and is
> incredibly useful. Bass guitars have a built in bass boost from the
> increasing string length as one plays lower notes in addition to the
> frequency response of typical pickups. This completely annuls the shallow
> droop in the bass response from an EBS alignment. As long as the knee in the
> frequency response coincides with the the pitch of the lowest note on the
> bass, all is well. Outdoors, where there is no reinforcement of the bass, a
> simple twist of the typical bass knob will give your EBS cabinet a flat
> response. It's coincidence that typical bass boost controls flatten the
> response of EBS alignments, but it's a handy coincidence. Indoors, the
> response of the typicalroom flattens the response of an EBS enclosure.
>
> -Eric Bamberg
Hi Torgjoern, Eric,
I have to vote with Eric on this one. JBL generally puts that speaker
in their 4518 enclosure which is 8 cu. ft. volume. Exterior dimensions
are (HxWxD): 1060mm x 667mm x 464mm (39 3/4" x 26 1/2" x 17 1/4") with
the speaker mounted well towards the bottom and with three round ducted
vents above the speaker (in a horizontal row). The vents look to be
about 3 1/2 to 4 inches, or so, in diameter. They claim usable
frequency to 30 Hz, but don't state the tuning frequency. However, I
suspect it most likely is in the low 30s, perhaps 30 Hz. I would assume
that JBL has pretty well thought out the details over the years, taking
portability factors into acount, as well, so I doubt that you would
improve a great deal on their design, esp since it is based on years of
experience. Oh, if you have special needs, then perhaps, but all things
considered, for general use, they probably have it pretty well thought
out.
After writing this, I plugged the parameters into my homebrew
spreadsheet that calculates freq resp from TS parameters. It plots the
frequency response for 8 integral values of Ql values from 4 through
11. This is something that seems to be glossed over most of the time,
as it is difficult (impossible) to predetermine. Taking an educated
guess seems as appropriate as anything else. I would like to emphasize
that Ql has a very profound effect on low bass performance and every
precaution should be taken to totally seal the enclossure (exc for the
port), including gasketing the woofer and to generously use cross
bracing to make the walls as rigid as possible. For portable use you
would want to use plywood for its lighter weight and substantially
greater strength. Just sitting a large MDS or particle board enclosure
down a bit too gingerly on its on corner hard pavement can cause the
entire corner to fracture, plus they are quite heavy to lug about.
When looking at the predicted freq resp, it doesn't look very inspiring,
as the rolloff at 30 Hz is significant, less for high Ql, but still
signficant. Of course room boost, as Eric points out, is not taken into
account, which will offset much of the rolloff. I would not alter the
speaker itself. If you want stronger low-end response, then add some
series resistance to raise the Qts (or drive it from a high Z tube amp)
and use a larger box. But then, boxes much larger than about 8 cu ft
are a pain in the whatzit to tote about. The form factor used by JBL
makes for a convenient size to move about on a two wheel dolly, or you
could permanently attached a pair of wheels and a handle for a built-in
two-wheel dolly.
If minimum size is the goal, the best approach would be to design a 6th
order system. It so happens that the optimum 6th order design turns out
to be with a Qts of 0.312 (add 2.1 ohms series res), volume = .4 x VAS =
6.8 cu. ft., box tuning = fs (30 Hz) with a 2nd order eq Q of 2. This
requires extra power at the boost freq, so a whompin great SS amp would
seem appropriate. You could then use, or bypass, the equalizer as
environment dictates. If you want flat response to 30 Hz, then adjust
the Qts to the optimum value of 0.383 (4 ohms series res), use a 17 cu
ft enclosure tuned to fs (30 Hz). If you can attain a Ql of 8 (which is
probably a higher value than you would achieve in practice), then it
would give flat response to 30 Hz. This might not work as well though,
as power handling would likely be compromised and room boost is not
taken into account which would probably result in over emphasizing the
low end and it may have flabby bass. This takes us back to where we
started, JBL probably has it pretty well optimized, all things
considered,, so I would go with their enclosure design. If you can beg,
borow or steal an enclosure this size for a trial run, it might save you
some wheel spinning.
Dan Marshall
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Lien?=" <mdrivekl@online.no>
Subject: Re: [JN]:Wanted: bass-reflex help.
Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1999 19:51:59 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n174
Hello William.
Thanks for the reply, looks like your
conclusions is more or less in line
with the ones I got from Jean Michel.
(In the answer to that I wented the idea
of altering the unit's parameters.
What do you think of that?)
Do you/anybody have any knowledge to what
these units initially was used for?
Regards
Torbjoern, Norway
> Running the JBL 2240 through "Top Box", for minumum
> ripple (0) calls for a 98.7 liter vented box,
> tuned to 43.5 Hz, with a -3 db point of 54.4 Hz
> and a sensitivity of 98.8 db at 2.83v.
> Sorry, looks like you need a true subwoofer driver.
=========================================================================
From: "Farwell-Clay" <wclay@mediaone.net>
Subject: [JN] Wanted: Cardmatic Tube Tester Card for #10
Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2001 14:17:01 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n916
Hello everyone,
Does anyone have a spare Hickok 123 or 118 cardmatic card to test a #10
tube? Or a blank they could cut? Equivalents O.K. too. I'd of course
appreciate it greatly and pay whatever, etc.
Thanks!
Walter Clay
=========================================================================
From: bill gardner <wg44929@navix.net>
Subject: [JN] wanted dead or alive
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 20:29:52 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n102
joes and ms Logg : Would like to buy Altec 1520 or 1530 amps , singles
pairs , trannys etc ..... any for sale?
Thanks and best as always William
Gardner
=========================================================================
From: "Raymond van Weeghel" <raymondvanweeghel@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted dead or alive: BB PCM1702 datasheet
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 11:23:04 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n951
http://www.audiocom-uk.com/Data_Sheets/PCM1702.pdf
have fun
Raymond
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "David Home" <David_Home@creoscitex.com>
To: "Remco Stoutjesdijk" <remco@ultranalog.com>; <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 10:11 AM
Subject: RE: [JN] Wanted dead or alive: BB PCM1732 datasheet
> Can't find the datasheet for the PCM 1702 either.
> Anyone got it or point me to it?
> Regards, David
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Remco Stoutjesdijk [mailto:remco@ultranalog.com]
> Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 9:59 PM
> To: sound@lists.io.com
> Subject: [JN] Wanted dead or alive: BB PCM1732 datasheet
>
>
> Gang,
>
> Longshot:
> Is there anybody out there who has this datasheet somewhere? It has been
> available for a while, but now Burr-Brown doesn't have it online anymore,
> probably since it's the world's first HDCD + DAC integrated chip. Looks
> interesting. I have an NAD player here that has it, but is infected with
> opamps and needs to be cured from this horrible disease.
> I have already figured out the topology and pinout but would like to know
> something more about the internal setup and just have the d**ned sheet...
>
> TIA,
>
> Remco
> --
> http://www.ultranalog.com
>
=========================================================================
From: Remco Stoutjesdijk <remco@ultranalog.com>
Subject: [JN] Wanted dead or alive: BB PCM1732 datasheet
Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:58:49 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n949
Gang,
Longshot:
Is there anybody out there who has this datasheet somewhere? It has been available for a while, but
now Burr-Brown doesn't have it online anymore, probably since it's the world's first HDCD + DAC inte
grated chip. Looks interesting. I have an NAD player here that has it, but is infected with opamps a
nd needs to be cured from this horrible disease.
I have already figured out the topology and pinout but would like to know something more about the i
nternal setup and just have the d**ned sheet...
TIA,
Remco
- --
http://www.ultranalog.com
=========================================================================
From: "Raymond van Weeghel" <raymondvanweeghel@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted dead or alive: BB PCM1732 datasheet
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 14:12:13 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n949
> Longshot:
> Is there anybody out there who has this datasheet somewhere? It has been
available for a while, but now Burr-Brown doesn't have it online anymore,
probably since it's the world's first HDCD + DAC integrated chip. Looks
interesting. I have an NAD player here that has it, but is infected with
opamps and needs to be cured from this horrible disease.
> I have already figured out the topology and pinout but would like to know
something more about the internal setup and just have the d**ned sheet...
>
Hi,
Sice I know you're very good with languages:
Here you can find some genral info
http://www.56789.com/data/253.htm
This one probably links to the datasheet:
http://www.cgc.co.jp/bbj/products/PCM.html
Here's a link to a joelist digest, with the pressrelease:
http://www.sw.com.sg/~oleg/sound-digest/v01.n430
And by now you will get tired of this, so here's the file itself:
http://www.audiocom-uk.com/Data_Sheets/PCM1732.pdf
(if downloading doesn't work, I saved the file, so I can send it by email)
Have fun!
Greetz,
Raymond
=========================================================================
From: Remco Stoutjesdijk <remco@ultranalog.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted dead or alive: BB PCM1732 datasheet
Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 21:19:02 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n949
Ah! Even a longshot works around here.
>And by now you will get tired of this, so here's the file itself:
>http://www.audiocom-uk.com/Data_Sheets/PCM1732.pdf
Yes! audiocom didn't have it yesterday (broken link). Great. Thanx Raymond, and all others who offer
ed help!
I now see I can tap audio out even before the lowpass filter. Kewl. Too bad this baby's single ended
, but maybe the HDCD makes up for that.
Well, let's get to work!
Thanks again,
Remco
- --
http://www.ultranalog.com
=========================================================================
From: David Home <David_Home@creoscitex.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Wanted dead or alive: BB PCM1732 datasheet
Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 10:11:53 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n951
Can't find the datasheet for the PCM 1702 either.
Anyone got it or point me to it?
Regards, David
- -----Original Message-----
From: Remco Stoutjesdijk [mailto:remco@ultranalog.com]
Sent: Friday, August 17, 2001 9:59 PM
To: sound@lists.io.com
Subject: [JN] Wanted dead or alive: BB PCM1732 datasheet
Gang,
Longshot:
Is there anybody out there who has this datasheet somewhere? It has been
available for a while, but now Burr-Brown doesn't have it online anymore,
probably since it's the world's first HDCD + DAC integrated chip. Looks
interesting. I have an NAD player here that has it, but is infected with
opamps and needs to be cured from this horrible disease.
I have already figured out the topology and pinout but would like to know
something more about the internal setup and just have the d**ned sheet...
TIA,
Remco
- --
http://www.ultranalog.com
=========================================================================
From: "Mai, Jeff" <Jeff.Mai@sunmed.com>
Subject: [JN] Wanted: dead preamp
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 12:42:10 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n780
I'm looking for a dead SS preamp for a project. It needs to be a minimum of
3 inches tall, otherwise I prefer a smaller chassis. I'll be using the
knobs, switching controls and RCA jacks. Nothing else needs to work.
Email me off list if you've got something like this. I've got a few cool
things to trade or I'll pay green money.
Jeff
=========================================================================
From: "Eric Weitzman" <eweitzman@acm.org>
Subject: [JN] wanted: DQ10 crossover schematic
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:24:20 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n758
Does anyone have a schematic for the crossover in the Dahlquist DQ10 loudspeaker?
Thanks,
- - Eric
=========================================================================
From: Paul Butterfield <paulbutterfield@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] wanted: DQ10 crossover schematic
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:14:22 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n758
Hi Eric,
One of our local CFAS members has rebuilt and modified three pairs of
DQ10s. I'll forward your request over to him.
Best, Paul B
Eric Weitzman wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a schematic for the crossover in the Dahlquist DQ10 loudspeaker?
>
> Thanks,
> - Eric
- --
Paul Butterfield
Central Florida Audio Society
TAD 2001 Recovery Project
paulbutterfield@usa.net
paulbutterfield@mindspring.com
407/645-1111 Voice number
407/647-1177 Voice/Data
"Those who hear not the music think the dancers mad."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
=========================================================================
From: David Barnett <d_n_b@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] wanted: DQ10 crossover schematic
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:31:31 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n759
On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 08:24:20 -0800, Eric Weitzman <eweitzman@acm.org>
wrote:
>Does anyone have a schematic for the crossover in the Dahlquist DQ10 loudspeaker?
I think I can draw it from memory. It's a nightmare of series and
parallel sections -- the woofer and mid are in series, which is in
parallell with the series-connected pair of domes, then the piezo is
fed off the dome tweeter with some additional filtering. Send me your
snail-mail address and I'll shoot you a quick drawing.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "Ron & Tamara" <ron.steinberg@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [JN] wanted: DQ10 crossover schematic
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 12:18:32 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n759
Eric, you're the second person in 4 days that I know that has requested
this! Well you're in luck 'cause I have it on my web site. Check out:
http://www3.sympatico.ca/ron.steinberg/DQ10crossover.gif
Cheers,
Ron
- ----------
>From: "Eric Weitzman" <eweitzman@acm.org>
>To: <sound@lists.io.com>
>Subject: [JN] wanted: DQ10 crossover schematic
>Date: Wed, Dec 13, 2000, 12:24 PM
>
> Does anyone have a schematic for the crossover in the Dahlquist DQ10
loudspeaker?
>
> Thanks,
> - Eric
=========================================================================
From: rcjones1@mmm.com
Subject: [JN] Wanted: EL509's and adapter sockets.
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 08:53:25 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n994
Hi there,
wow this list is quiet.
Anyhow, I decided on EL509's for my CF. A lot more rugged. Anyone have
any CHEAP ones? I need 8 total. Also is there any sockets for these that
have the screw terminals like the octal relay sockets?
Anyhow I am thinking of 70-80v anode, 150v g3.
any thoughts?
Richard
=========================================================================
From: rcjones1@mmm.com
Subject: [JN] wanted : GZ37 pair
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 11:11:03 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n890
Hi joenetters,
I know this is a wanted ad, but I am looking for a pair of GZ37 rectifiers.
Preferably in the US.
Thanks
RIchard
=========================================================================
From: "Multi-Volti Devices" <multi-volti@softhouse.com>
Subject: [JN] wanted Hickok TV-3B/U NAVSHIPS 91747 manual
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 00:49:28 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n205
wanted Hickok TV-3B/U NAVSHIPS 91747 manual
Thanks
Murray
Multi-Volti@softhouse.com
=========================================================================
From: Ed Billeci <tube@teleport.com>
Subject: [JN] Wanted: JBL H-92 / 2312 horn (x1) / Subs for sale
Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:48:58 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n816
If you have one of these horns for sale, please let me know.
BTW, I have some of the Linkwitz style open baffle subs for sale, with the
X6100 drivers. Built according to plans @ http://www.linkwitzlab/woofer.htm
includes (4) subs total, total of (x8) drivers, barely used. (still not
broken in) $300 all if you pick them up in Portland. If you want these
shipped, it is $350 / all, and I will deliver them to a shipper/packaging
Co. (you would have to arrange transport and packing from there.)
This is obviously much less than they cost to build. Why am I selling?
The subs are not able to be crossed over to my Chapman horn/TAD midrange.
The crossover point is too high for the Linkwitz subs and this creates a
"gap" between 125hz to 250 hz. I am currently building subs that will
crossover at the required 250 hz. If you know of anyone who needs good
subs, please let them know, as I hate to see these sitting around un-used.
Ed B.
Portland, OR
http://www.teleport.com/~tube
=========================================================================
From: "Epstein, Jeremy" <JEpstein@ndbcap.com>
Subject: [JN] Wanted : Large Advent Tweeters
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 15:18:46 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n562
I am using the tweeters from a junked pair of Large Advents with my TQWP
experimental speaker testbeds and they sound pretty good. The ones I'm using
came out of the trash, and, well, let's just say my attempts to pull a dent
out of one tweeter dome weren't fully successful. Anybody have any of these
lying around?
The tweeter is an amber paper cone in the shape of a convex dome with a
convex half-roll around it. (Cross section : nnn ) The surround attaches to
a thin masonite (or impregnated cardboard?) square board oriented as a
diamond, about 3/8" behind this is a square steel plate which holds the
square magnet assembly and the terminals. You'd know it if you saw it.
Anyway what with the big dent in the one dome and the fact that I want to
build another pair of these for my brother, I got to thinking I should cast
about for some more of these. I guess I could always BUY something but I
thought I'd rattle the collective junk-box first.
Rattling!
- -j
=========================================
Jeremy Epstein........jepstein@ndbcap.com
=========================================
=========================================================================
From: David Dlugos <planet10@pinc.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted : Large Advent Tweeters
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 18:52:27 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n562
>>The ones I'm using
>>came out of the trash, and, well, let's just say my attempts to pull a dent
>>out of one tweeter dome weren't fully successful.
>
>Have you tried kissing out the dent with your mouth? I'm serious.
On the BASSList this is known as the Monica Lewinsky method. And it often
does work.
dave
______________________
Trust your ears, listen, practice hard
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted : Large Advent Tweeters
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 20:12:08 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n562
>>>The ones I'm using
>>>came out of the trash, and, well, let's just say my attempts to pull a dent
>>>out of one tweeter dome weren't fully successful.
>>
>>Have you tried kissing out the dent with your mouth? I'm serious.
>
> On the BASSList this is known as the Monica Lewinsky method. And it often
> does work.
>
> dave
>
. . . . just don't swallow . . . . the Ferrofluid . . . .
Anonymous Contribution :>)
=========================================================================
From: David Barnett <d_n_b@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted : Large Advent Tweeters
Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2000 20:25:41 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n562
On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 15:18:46 -0400, "Epstein, Jeremy"
<JEpstein@ndbcap.com> wrote:
>The ones I'm using
>came out of the trash, and, well, let's just say my attempts to pull a dent
>out of one tweeter dome weren't fully successful.
Have you tried kissing out the dent with your mouth? I'm serious.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted : Large Advent Tweeters
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2000 22:42:35 -0300 (ADT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n562
On Fri, 2 Jun 2000, David Barnett wrote:
> On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 15:18:46 -0400, "Epstein, Jeremy"
> <JEpstein@ndbcap.com> wrote:
>
> >The ones I'm using
> >came out of the trash, and, well, let's just say my attempts to pull a dent
> >out of one tweeter dome weren't fully successful.
>
> Have you tried kissing out the dent with your mouth? I'm serious.
>
> --dnb
I had some luck using a really old vaccumm cleaner with all its vents
open, even the top open. Left some very minor creases in the paper but
seemed to work.
Cheers
Richard Nevill
>
>
=========================================================================
From: David Barnett <d_n_b@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted : Large Advent Tweeters
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 03:39:15 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n562
On Fri, 02 Jun 2000 18:52:27 -0700, David Dlugos <planet10@pinc.com>
wrote:
>>Have you tried kissing out the dent with your mouth? I'm serious.
>
>On the BASSList this is known as the Monica Lewinsky method. And it often
>does work.
Where does the cigar fit in?
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "Ellen Oler" <ellenoler@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re : [JN] Wanted : Large Advent Tweeters
Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 08:59:36 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n563
>From: David Barnett <d_n_b@swbell.net>
><JEpstein@ndbcap.com> wrote:
>>The ones I'm using
>>came out of the trash, and, well, let's just say my attempts to pull a dent
>>out of one tweeter dome weren't fully successful.
>Have you tried kissing out the dent with your mouth? I'm serious.
Tried that.
>From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
>I had some luck using a really old vaccumm cleaner with all its vents
>open, even the top open. Left some very minor creases in the paper but
>seemed to work.
Tried that. Tried sticky tape too.
>From: David Dlugos <planet10@pinc.com>
>On the BASSList this is known as the Monica Lewinsky method. And it often
>does work.
Sorry, I don't smoke cigars.
;-)
Thanks, everybody!
PS : one Joe was kind enough to tell me where I could buy these. However,
I'm looking for a somewhat lower cost basis than new retail - what I told
him was, if the average Joe is anything like me, he drags these into his
garage after seeing them on the curb, and then 2 years later is saying "What
the hell am I going to do with these things?"
Me, I'm just trying to help clean out YOUR garage, Mr. Average Joe! And if I
have to pop full retail I'll probably buy something a little nicer.
- -j (Jeremy Epstein again, this time from home)
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Lien?=" <mdrivekl@online.no>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformer
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:05:08 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n024
> Hmmmm...can't resist this one
>
> This is an interesting comparison...basically the old accuracy
> vs. pleasing sound schism
>
> the most popular guitar amp circuits are the old school stuff w/
> small caps, small or no chokes, cathode bias, tube ectification.
> Pleasing distortion and warm clean sound are the benchmarks,
> strictly ear and taste driven...BTW all guitar amp speakers
> start to roll off around 5-6k...this is the classic sound.
>
Yepp, I fully agree,-this is *the* classic sound,-but also the
coloured, compressed, noisy, distorted, warm, etc. sound that defined
the sound of the electric guitar *right* from the start,- The sound of
electric blues and rocn'roll,-of course this can't
be "improved" upon,-It would be a tech. dumb try to change the
instruments and music itselves....
> Most guitar players HATE fast, accurate sounding solid state
> amps...too unforgiving, powerful and annoying sounding.
Solid state amps yes...And in general you are right. But there
are guitar players that love "accurate" or modern, or whatever
you call this setup aswell,-The challenge of mastering this "magnifying
glass" approach.. Especially skilled musicians that
do tapping and other kinds of modern techniques,-
> Bass players tend to like more powerful, accurate sounding tube >amps
like SVT, but who wants to carry 100 lbs to every gig?
I do,-I have a car though..One guitarist I play with find my rig to be
useless,-for guitar...But he keeps asking me of building
him a small scale version,-for home practise.Cause whenever he plugs
on, he faces his own "limitations",-or inaccuracies of fingering
technique. I do aswell,-but I can't give up this access to a real
dynamic, or responsive sound. I guess compressors are not for me....
[snip]
> I sat down w/ jc and we designed and built an amp that had
> excellent numbers using 6550's, hexfreds, ultralinear,
> big caps, etc. Guess what? It was no FUN to listen to!!!
> Pointless, sonically.
Yes, I *do* believe this aswell,-ofcourse there's more to it
than big caps,-there is just so many factors that comes to play
here,-My initial remarks about PSU's was more to be read like
this: Make an unmoveable stiff PSU with low common mode noise,-
Then you can just forget it and move on to the circuit itselves..
IMHO a good supply might reveal the uselessness of the
ultralinear circuit pretty fast.....
Regards,
Torbjoern Lien
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "G. Johnston" <garywj@home.com>
Subject: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Sat, 30 Jan 1999 11:50:50 +0900
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n017
Hey Gang,
I am looking for a nice set of used, or new(nos), power transformers to
fuel my "Flesh and Bloods".
I believe that Herb himself is using toroids, but I would like to locate
something which is comparable in a standard bell type-if I am not
mistaken, he is recommending 400-0-400 at 500Ma. I tried to get a quote
on some made here in the states and the cost would be around $300 min.
Ouch!
Just asking if anybody had some serious chunks of iron around that they
might be willing to part with.
Gary
=========================================================================
From: Chris Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 07:11:26 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n017
If you want my 2 cents worth, try the Hammond transformers. I don't think
they have anything THAT big, but sheesh, 500mA is overkill, in my opinion.
What's a 300B gonna use? 60mA, 80mA? A 200 mA tranny should me more than
enough. I know what Herb is saying, I've read his article. It makes
sense. But, it all depends on how much you want to spend.
But, I have not heard his amp with ANY power supply, so this is all totally
my opinion. Proceed at your own risk! :-)
Chris Beck
see my webpage at: http://www.execpc.com/~n9zes
"G. Johnston" wrote:
> Hey Gang,
>
> I am looking for a nice set of used, or new(nos), power transformers to
> fuel my "Flesh and Bloods".
>
> I believe that Herb himself is using toroids, but I would like to locate
> something which is comparable in a standard bell type-if I am not
> mistaken, he is recommending 400-0-400 at 500Ma. I tried to get a quote
> on some made here in the states and the cost would be around $300 min.
> Ouch!
>
> Just asking if anybody had some serious chunks of iron around that they
> might be willing to part with.
>
> Gary
=========================================================================
From: spence barton <ence-ack@rio.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 10:48:10 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n018
> If you want my 2 cents worth, try the Hammond transformers. I don't think
> they have anything THAT big, but sheesh, 500mA is overkill, in my opinion.
> What's a 300B gonna use? 60mA, 80mA? A 200 mA tranny should me more than
> enough. I know what Herb is saying, I've read his article. It makes
> sense. But, it all depends on how much you want to spend.
>
> But, I have not heard his amp with ANY power supply, so this is all totally
> my opinion. Proceed at your own risk! :-)
It's always wonderful to have an idea shot down by someone who's NEVER
TRIED IT. That's what I really like about this list and I why I ALMOST
NEVER post anymore. Here a guy asks for help finding a transformer and
shares the information that high current transformers can make a
difference and someone who's never tried it tells him not to bother. For
heavens sake.
I use power supply transformers which are rated at 750 mA. I noticed
some substantial, across-the-board improvements and posted about them to
the list. If most of the other ducks are in a row in an amp, this can be
a really good thing to do. Getting an amp to sound good takes a whole
lot more than adding up the current draws and supply that current.
Saying a power transformer can supply a lot of current is just another
way of say that it is very low impedance. Ignore voltage it's only the
shadow of current which is what's really important. Big iron, small (no)
caps. Yesirree.
An amp built with a great power supply and a cheap chinese 2A3 will
smoke an amp with a crummy supply and the most expensive output tube
made. Power amps are a lot more current amplifiers than they are voltage
amplifiers. Speakers are current operated devices.
spence
=========================================================================
From: Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 13:25:30 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n018
At 11:50 AM 1/30/99 +0900, you wrote:
>Hey Gang,
>I believe that Herb himself is using toroids, but I would like to locate
>something which is comparable in a standard bell type-if I am not
>mistaken, he is recommending 400-0-400 at 500Ma. I tried to get a quote
>on some made here in the states and the cost would be around $300 min.
>Ouch!
Hammond makes a dedicated plate tranny (one of the 7xx series) that's
425-0-425 and good for 450 mADC ICAS. It's 8.8 pounds.
You could also go choke input and get better current specs out of a tranny.
Real estate, cost, and weight come into play of course. I am not familiar
with the design of the PS you have in mind, so I can't really comment on that.
Myself, I am using a DIY toroid. Still winding it though...
kg
Ken Gilbert
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Garage/5701
- ------------------------------------------------
Tube Guitar Amplifier Repair/Design Technician
The Guitarist's Choice Inc. http://www.tgcguitar.com
=========================================================================
From: "E. Billeci" <tube@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 14:35:59 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n018
At 10:48 AM 1/31/99 -0800, you wrote:
[great stuff snipped]
>I use power supply transformers which are rated at 750 mA. I noticed
>some substantial, across-the-board improvements and posted about them to
>the list. If most of the other ducks are in a row in an amp, this can be
>a really good thing to do. Getting an amp to sound good takes a whole
>lot more than adding up the current draws and supply that current.
>Saying a power transformer can supply a lot of current is just another
>way of say that it is very low impedance. Ignore voltage it's only the
>shadow of current which is what's really important. Big iron, small (no)
>caps. Yesirree.
Agreed. Another thing some people (cough) forget, is that you gotta draw
the line somewhere. There is a fine
balance between maximizing sound quality, and still being able to move the
thing when it is done. I have been in the process of reducing the size and
weight of a largish 212 S.E. amp I built a couple of years ago. I found
that the two main culprits are big iron, and big oil
caps.(www.teleport.com/~tube)
I suggest using toroids as Spence does, and also suggest using toroidal
common-mode chokes in the power supply. As far as the caps go, the newer
oil/poly caps are low ESR, and smaller than the older, larger square can
types. They are also round, so it makes for many interesting options as far
as chassis design goes. As you know, those toroids are hard to beat for
space considerations. How else can you tuck a 12amp fil trans under your
chassis? ( most people are smart enough to stay away from tubes with 100
watt fils )
It would be possible to use toroids for all your iron (parafeed opt) if
you so desired, but would probably require the builder to pay alot more
attention to balancing his house A-C power feed- a great idea in any case.
Ed Billeci
www.teleport.com/~tube
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:11:02 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n018
>From: "E. Billeci" <tube@teleport.com>
> At 10:48 AM 1/31/99 -0800, you wrote:
>
> [great stuff snipped]
>>I use power supply transformers which are rated at 750 mA. I noticed
>>some substantial, across-the-board improvements and posted about them to
>>the list. If most of the other ducks are in a row in an amp, this can be
>>a really good thing to do. Getting an amp to sound good takes a whole
>>lot more than adding up the current draws and supply that current.
>>Saying a power transformer can supply a lot of current is just another
>>way of say that it is very low impedance. Ignore voltage it's only the
>>shadow of current which is what's really important. Big iron, small (no)
>>caps. Yesirree.
>
> Agreed. Another thing some people (cough) forget, is that you gotta draw
> the line somewhere. There is a fine
> balance between maximizing sound quality, and still being able to move the
> thing when it is done. I have been in the process of reducing the size and
> weight of a largish 212 S.E. amp I built a couple of years ago. I found
> that the two main culprits are big iron, and big oil
> caps.(www.teleport.com/~tube)
>
> I suggest using toroids as Spence does, and also suggest using toroidal
> common-mode chokes in the power supply. As far as the caps go, the newer
> oil/poly caps are low ESR, and smaller than the older, larger square can
> types. They are also round, so it makes for many interesting options as far
> as chassis design goes. As you know, those toroids are hard to beat for
> space considerations. How else can you tuck a 12amp fil trans under your
> chassis? ( most people are smart enough to stay away from tubes with 100
> watt fils )
> It would be possible to use toroids for all your iron (parafeed opt) if
> you so desired, but would probably require the builder to pay alot more
> attention to balancing his house A-C power feed- a great idea in any case.
>
>
> Ed Billeci
> www.teleport.com/~tube
>
===============================
Hi All:
You know, it's really too bad that PTs built on c-cores aren't more
commonly available. As I've said before, toroids exhibt very extended
frequency response and this is that last thing wanted in a PT.
While it's true that the excitation current in a toroid is much lower
(essentially the current drawn by the transformer when running with no load
on the secondary), the trade-off is a greatly increased susceptibility to
saturation by assymmetical input waveforms... and these occur all the time
on the AC line.
E-I stacks are at the bottom of the barrel in almost every parameter,
ungapped toriods excel in a few ways, but are, in many ways, an unbalaced
approach to the problem. Gapped c-core devices are the best balance for most
audio work.
Bill - PEARL.
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 16:18:05 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n018
>From: spence barton <ence-ack@rio.com>
€ Snip €
>
> I use power supply transformers which are rated at 750 mA. I noticed
> some substantial, across-the-board improvements and posted about them to
> the list. If most of the other ducks are in a row in an amp, this can be
> a really good thing to do. Getting an amp to sound good takes a whole
> lot more than adding up the current draws and supply that current.
> Saying a power transformer can supply a lot of current is just another
> way of say that it is very low impedance. Ignore voltage it's only the
> shadow of current which is what's really important. Big iron, small (no)
> caps. Yesirree.
>
> An amp built with a great power supply and a cheap chinese 2A3 will
> smoke an amp with a crummy supply and the most expensive output tube
> made. Power amps are a lot more current amplifiers than they are voltage
> amplifiers. Speakers are current operated devices.
€ Dynamic speakers anyway, ESLs are, in large measure,
voltage operated; a point commonly overlooked. €
>
>
> spence
================================
Hi All:
Over the years, I've given this particular observation a lot of thought
and while I have a few nascent ideas about why this might be so, I've failed
to arrived at any satisfying notions.... any ideas that might allow me to
come up with a more elegant alternative to this seemingly "brute force"
approach.
My experience is that while brute force will get you to a workable
result, something interesting always happens when understanding dawns and
something more sophisticated can be developed..
Bill - PEARL
=========================================================================
From: "Larry D. Moore" <l-moore@onu.edu>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 17:01:59 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n018
Spence:
I'm locked and loaded! I got your backside covered! I'm for the power tx
higher current capability too.
L.D. Moore
<BIG SNIP>
=========================================================================
From: Chris Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:00:13 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n018
Does anyone have mathematical proof or even theory why such large, low impedance
supplies make such a difference to our amps? I can understand this line of
pursuit when trying to run a big PP class AB amp, with the large current swings
necessary. But, for class A amps, the only current variation is the
instantaneous change with signal in the output tranny. Am I correct?? This is
handled by the last capacitor in the supply, from what I've gathered.
I'm really trying to understand this all, as I too have read the posts here
about big, low DCR chokes, thyratron rectifiers, etc, and have tried to
understand how this affects the amp. I find it all quite interesting.
Thanks for any insight!
Chris
PEARL Cust Serv wrote:
> >From: spence barton <ence-ack@rio.com>
>
> € Snip €
> >
> > I use power supply transformers which are rated at 750 mA. I noticed
> > some substantial, across-the-board improvements and posted about them to
> > the list. If most of the other ducks are in a row in an amp, this can be
> > a really good thing to do. Getting an amp to sound good takes a whole
> > lot more than adding up the current draws and supply that current.
> > Saying a power transformer can supply a lot of current is just another
> > way of say that it is very low impedance. Ignore voltage it's only the
> > shadow of current which is what's really important. Big iron, small (no)
> > caps. Yesirree.
> >
> > An amp built with a great power supply and a cheap chinese 2A3 will
> > smoke an amp with a crummy supply and the most expensive output tube
> > made. Power amps are a lot more current amplifiers than they are voltage
> > amplifiers. Speakers are current operated devices.
> € Dynamic speakers anyway, ESLs are, in large measure,
> voltage operated; a point commonly overlooked. €
> >
> >
> > spence
>
> ================================
>
> Hi All:
> Over the years, I've given this particular observation a lot of thought
> and while I have a few nascent ideas about why this might be so, I've failed
> to arrived at any satisfying notions.... any ideas that might allow me to
> come up with a more elegant alternative to this seemingly "brute force"
> approach.
> My experience is that while brute force will get you to a workable
> result, something interesting always happens when understanding dawns and
> something more sophisticated can be developed..
>
> Bill - PEARL
=========================================================================
From: "Ferenc Koscso" <vektorbp@mail.datanet.hu>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Sun, 31 Jan 1999 18:46:16 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n018
I am using toroid power tranny for my DC coupled 45 triode monoblock amp.
One is 200VA toroid for the 6SL7 input and another 300VA for the output
stage. I paid about $55 for the smaller and about $65 for the bigger one,
they are made by a Hungarian tranny maker, it was the smallest power they
make, this is the reason why I bought so big. They are very quiet, no
buzzing. I know it is overkill, size is really big (OD 120 and 130 mm,
height is 55 and 68 mm) but their dynamics, body and smoothness is really
nice, better than my former Audio Note was.
Ferenc
- ----------
>From: "G. Johnston" <garywj@home.com>
>To: "'Sound Practices'" <sound@lists.io.com>
>Subject: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
>Date: Sat, Jan 30, 1999, 3:50 AM
>
> Hey Gang,
>
> I am looking for a nice set of used, or new(nos), power transformers to
> fuel my "Flesh and Bloods".
>
> I believe that Herb himself is using toroids, but I would like to locate
> something which is comparable in a standard bell type-if I am not
> mistaken, he is recommending 400-0-400 at 500Ma. I tried to get a quote
> on some made here in the states and the cost would be around $300 min.
> Ouch!
>
> Just asking if anybody had some serious chunks of iron around that they
> might be willing to part with.
>
> Gary
=========================================================================
From: Allen Wright <AllenVSE@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 03:36:15 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n018
Spence wrote:
>>>It's always wonderful to have an idea shot down by someone who's NEVER
TRIED IT. That's what I really like about this list and I why I ALMOST
NEVER post anymore. Here a guy asks for help finding a transformer and
shares the information that high current transformers can make a
difference and someone who's never tried it tells him not to bother. For
heavens sake<<<
Right On! There are facts and experience, and then there are opinions...
Allen (VSE)
=========================================================================
From: pitaro@ozemail.com.au
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 17:19:37 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n018
Hi all,
Does the large current capabilities in a power tranny improve the
regulation of the power transformer? Maybe that's the advantage that
people are hearing.
I've been told by my power tranny winder that most power trannies have
about 7% regulation. I've ordered some with 1% regulation trannies and the
size of the iron is about 3 times bigger. I don't know what the regulation
is for an average toroid.
Just a thought.
Regards,
Harry Pitaro
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
| Melbourne, Australia | A good discussion is like a miniskirt; |
| | Short enough to retain interest |
| pitaro@ozemail.com.au | and long enough to cover the subject. |
+-----------------------+---------------------------------------------+
=========================================================================
From: Steve Berger <aprilsound@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 10:33:20 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n019
spence barton wrote:
>
> > If you want my 2 cents worth, try the Hammond transformers. I don't think
> > they have anything THAT big, but sheesh, 500mA is overkill, in my opinion.
> > What's a 300B gonna use? 60mA, 80mA? A 200 mA tranny should me more than
> > enough. I know what Herb is saying, I've read his article. It makes
> > sense. But, it all depends on how much you want to spend.
> >
> > But, I have not heard his amp with ANY power supply, so this is all totally
> > my opinion. Proceed at your own risk! :-)
>
> It's always wonderful to have an idea shot down by someone who's NEVER
> TRIED IT. That's what I really like about this list and I why I ALMOST
> NEVER post anymore. Here a guy asks for help finding a transformer and
> shares the information that high current transformers can make a
> difference and someone who's never tried it tells him not to bother. For
> heavens sake.
>
> I use power supply transformers which are rated at 750 mA. I noticed
> some substantial, across-the-board improvements and posted about them to
> the list. If most of the other ducks are in a row in an amp, this can be
> a really good thing to do. Getting an amp to sound good takes a whole
> lot more than adding up the current draws and supply that current.
> Saying a power transformer can supply a lot of current is just another
> way of say that it is very low impedance. Ignore voltage it's only the
> shadow of current which is what's really important. Big iron, small (no)
> caps. Yesirree.
>
> An amp built with a great power supply and a cheap chinese 2A3 will
> smoke an amp with a crummy supply and the most expensive output tube
> made. Power amps are a lot more current amplifiers than they are voltage
> amplifiers. Speakers are current operated devices.
>
> spence
Hear Hear Spence!!:
Folks, There is NO free sonic lunch!{J.C.Morisson,circa 1994}.
If you want to just have fun, use your dumpster junk. This is fine, it
just wont get you to where I want to be.
Untill you've been there, its absurd to make coments like "current
reserve doesnt matter" or "large, Low DCR chokes Cant make a diference"
Give me a F#%#ing break. I got a call from a guy who told me that he got
the GREATEST sound from a pair of PP trannys out of an old reciever.
I said to him"with all due respect sir, what you've got is the taste of
what SE can do".I think that this is more whats going on here than
anything. Its so exiteing to put something together and see it work that
it HAS to be the best thing youve ever heard. The truth is,it probably
IS a damn sight better than most of the crap that you can buy at the
Wiz.
Guys like Spence, Dave "clippy" Slagle are guys you should really
listen to. They have both spent the time and the bucks to find out whats
what.
Large Low DCR chokes small caps high current power trannys, OH BABY!
Steve
PS: OH!, did I forget to mention sound design and TASTE?
- --
Steve Berger <http://home.earthlink.net/~aprilsound/>
=========================================================================
From: "Chris Beck" <cbeck@brewercompany.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 13:49:14 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n019
Okay, I'm starting to see the light here. One question I have is how does
the relationship of power supply capacity (that is: big mondo trannies)
have with the capacitance of the supply? It seems that the preference is
for big iron/small caps. There must be a limit how small you can go with
caps before hum gets too bad? On the other hand, why can't we use a
transformer that handles just what we need and just throw tons of uF at it
as a reservoir to handle the current variation?
The supply I use in my amps is 200mA tranny,Rectifier is 5R4, then 10uF,
10H choke with 92 ohms DCR, and 50uF of polyprop/oil caps to the output
tranny. . Then another 40uF to the driver after a dropper resistor. I
draw around 120-140mA from this supply. A rather "textbook" supply.
I really find this very interesting, as this is the sort of thing that has
to be heard to be understood, no? Equations help, math helps, but the
proof is in the pudding, and this is where I don't have much experience,
I'm afraid. I've always understood that if you have enough capacitance at
the final end of the filter, you are in good shape. However, as you draw
currrent from this cap on an instantaneous basis, the voltage drops, no
matter how big the cap (within reason). Having a low Z supply feeding it
allows the output stage to draw directly from the AC supply so to speak,
which is relatively limitless. This keeps the operating point of the tube
constant which lowers the dynamic distortion, as Kurt mentioned.
Now, a cap input filter charges in a series of pulses from the AC, right?
What happens to the low impedance supply when a big transient comes along
between charging pulses from the rectifier?
Thanks for the bandwidth. I really want to understand the WHY of how this
works. I certainly don't say that monster supplies are ridiculous, etc.
Like Spence said, he's been there, done that, along with Mr. Slagle. I
just want to know what makes them tick.
Chris Beck
See my web page at: http://www.execpc.com/~n9zes/index.htm
- ----------
> From: Kurt Steffensen <solvin-aurum@get2net.dk>
> To: Chris Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
> Cc: PEARL Cust Serv <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>; sound@lists.io.com
> Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
> Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 11:31 AM
>
> Dear Chris , and all other interested.
>
> Chris Beck skrev:
>
> > Does anyone have mathematical proof or even theory why such large, low
impedance
> > supplies make such a difference to our amps?
>
> Yes, I do, to the degree that mathematics proofs anything in this
matter.
>
> The delta current that is drawn from the amplifier , changes the voltage
to be
> supplied to the same , with the value of the Z-out in the PSU. (dI x Z )
> If the delta current is 100mA , and the Z of the transformer is say 300
Ohm ,
> then the voltage change is at least 60 Volts.(The small iron mass ads to
this)
>
> As all these happens very fast , but fully within the audio range , these
changes ,
> appears as "ringning" or fast unpredictable oscillations.(Not visuable
with sines)
> Further is influence the dynamics , and power output of the system.
> The ringning is mainly due to the reaction between the Z of the
transformer ,
> and the capacity of the capacitors.
>
> Low-Z , transformers and low DC-Ohm chokes, and LOTS of uF´s , makes
> the amplifier more , dynamic ,steady and lowers the DYNAMIC distortion.
>
> It simply sounds a lot better , the lower the impedance , the PSU can do.
>
> The regulated ones surely are the best , but one can do good , with big
> transformers,
> chokes and capacitors.
>
> You really do not need the mathematical proof , Chris, you can hear it
instantly ,
> if you try to compare.
>
> Like our good Bill (Perkins) , I do preferes the EI or C-cores.
> But the difference is not big.... It is just audiable , when we compare.
> I must have to admit , that regarding chokes, I can not tell any
difference ,
> between the Toroids or C/EI. (In fact I allmost belive the Toroids are a
tiny bit,
> better here.?)
> But toroids as output-transformers , is to me a dead end.
> Toroids tends to hesitate to deliver the currents.(That might be why ,
they seems to
>
> be a little better as chokes ?)
>
> - Sincerely Kurt
>
=========================================================================
From: Kurt Steffensen <solvin-aurum@get2net.dk>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 18:31:47 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n019
Dear Chris , and all other interested.
Chris Beck skrev:
> Does anyone have mathematical proof or even theory why such large, low impedance
> supplies make such a difference to our amps?
Yes, I do, to the degree that mathematics proofs anything in this matter.
The delta current that is drawn from the amplifier , changes the voltage to be
supplied to the same , with the value of the Z-out in the PSU. (dI x Z )
If the delta current is 100mA , and the Z of the transformer is say 300 Ohm ,
then the voltage change is at least 60 Volts.(The small iron mass ads to this)
As all these happens very fast , but fully within the audio range , these changes ,
appears as "ringning" or fast unpredictable oscillations.(Not visuable with sines)
Further is influence the dynamics , and power output of the system.
The ringning is mainly due to the reaction between the Z of the transformer ,
and the capacity of the capacitors.
Low-Z , transformers and low DC-Ohm chokes, and LOTS of uF´s , makes
the amplifier more , dynamic ,steady and lowers the DYNAMIC distortion.
It simply sounds a lot better , the lower the impedance , the PSU can do.
The regulated ones surely are the best , but one can do good , with big
transformers,
chokes and capacitors.
You really do not need the mathematical proof , Chris, you can hear it instantly ,
if you try to compare.
Like our good Bill (Perkins) , I do preferes the EI or C-cores.
But the difference is not big.... It is just audiable , when we compare.
I must have to admit , that regarding chokes, I can not tell any difference ,
between the Toroids or C/EI. (In fact I allmost belive the Toroids are a tiny bit,
better here.?)
But toroids as output-transformers , is to me a dead end.
Toroids tends to hesitate to deliver the currents.(That might be why , they seems to
be a little better as chokes ?)
- - Sincerely Kurt
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (dave slagle)
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 14:17:30 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n020
my clip lead fore-father stated some wise words...
we all have to realize that what we are doing is merely a matter of taste
and proiorities...
the biggest positive improvements I have heard in my system center around
the implamentation of power supplies. I have yet to attepmpt regulated,
but the "low dcr" approach in conjunction with MV rectafiers has led me in
a direction I like.
other things that have pushed me in that direction are IT's, and nickel
trannies.
other things that others concentrate on like silver wire, soldered
connections, and tube choice, have not been a priority of mine as of late,
since changing these seems to give me different sound, but not improved
sound. they all seemed to be lateral moves.
one of the best compliments I ever recieved was that I have worked my
system to the point of non-function... (apparently due to my lack of
engineering skills)
if you don't agree with what I say, don't discount it... try it... if you
don't like it... fine we like different things... and you never have to
listen to me again.
there are certain members of the community who have lead me astray with
their advice... I now know not to listen to them... not because they were
wrong, but because we have different tastes.
all it takes is a little time, and you will find people who have similar
tastes, and you can follow them to your dream system...
this whole thing started with someone putting trust in herb's assertation
that a bigass power trannie helps... and someone wanted to put faith in
herb's experiences...
of course lines must be drawn somwhere... but I suggest you should draw
your own lines based on your own experiences.
if you have limited experiences... you have to put your trust in someone...
I was lucky to find some great people here to follow...
dave
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 21:20:00 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n020
Torbjørn Lien wrote:
>
> Hello,-
> Seems that there is a groving consensus of the PSU consept described by
> lotsa' iron and *small* caps,-this then to lead
> to the most musically, most artistically resolving, to the
> most natural "speed" of sound ???......
>
> I must say that I'm puzzeled,-this approach goes against all
> my own experiences,-so I really wonder why,-
>
> Anyone?
>
> In my designs I have found the contrary to be true,-and there
> has never been, IMHO any contest whatsoever .....
I agree, 100%!
>
> There have been several tries of explaining how big caps *slow*
> down the sound of an amp,-so far I'll say that none of them
> have been understandable to me....Just think of this: *Any* R-C
> or LC network between x-former and amp is an intrinsically slow
> device,-*much* slower than music itself.
Exactly. Any musical transient that causes the load on the PS to
increase dramatically causes the increase in load AT SOME AF FREQUENCY
based on the musical signal. At that AF frequency, the impeadance of
the low dcr choke is 10s to 1000s of times the dcr anyway...
Snip...
>
> If the quest is for *real* dynamics, unconditionally stable operation
> and a fast recovery , one simply has to *keep all DC
> working points as stable as possible*. Simple as that. Meaning adequate
> iron to load caps, and as few caps as possible to
> *shift* the working points around. Meaning no cathode bias.
Unless, or course, you use big, unmoveable caps on the cathode bias
too... Of course, you may run into sonic problems with Cks that big
being unavailable in desirable dielectrics.
> No R-C coupling to any tube that can draw grid current.....
> And meaning *big* "unmoveable" caps in the PSU.
>
> On the other hand, I've found that with small PSU caps, cap-coupling to
> output tubes, and cathode bias,-the working points,
> especially under heavy loads are prone to wander all over the
> place...
Well, for instrument amps, this can be a problem. I try to build the
amp/speaker interface at home such that the amps are never under heavy
loads.
Snip...
Peace
- --
Roscoe Primrose
- -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com -- http://www.aiko.com/roscoe --
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Lien?=" <mdrivekl@online.no>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:01:20 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n020
Hello,-
Seems that there is a groving consensus of the PSU consept described by
lotsa' iron and *small* caps,-this then to lead
to the most musically, most artistically resolving, to the
most natural "speed" of sound ???......
I must say that I'm puzzeled,-this approach goes against all
my own experiences,-so I really wonder why,-
Anyone?
In my designs I have found the contrary to be true,-and there
has never been, IMHO any contest whatsoever .....
There have been several tries of explaining how big caps *slow*
down the sound of an amp,-so far I'll say that none of them
have been understandable to me....Just think of this: *Any* R-C
or LC network between x-former and amp is an intrinsically slow
device,-*much* slower than music itself. So, if recovery is of consern,
I'd say it's to slow anyway,-meaning that the only sensible way to get
unwanted (I guess it still is?) ripple
down is to supress it with *big* caps...
I have worked with and on several amps and gathered insight
especially when working on amps for electric guitars and basses:
Amps like these are working under far heavier and more difficult
situations than amps for home audio ever will. The dynamic of
the input signal isn't restricted, as in canned music. Or,-it can be
the opposit situation too: Often there is a constant balancing act,-not
to drive the amp into clipping or saturation,-
Yes I know,-These are really two different worlds,-but still...
What is "subtle changes" in a home-audio amp really show up in
a musical-instrument amp because of the latter ones far more demanding
usage.
If the quest is for *real* dynamics, unconditionally stable operation
and a fast recovery , one simply has to *keep all DC
working points as stable as possible*. Simple as that. Meaning adequate
iron to load caps, and as few caps as possible to
*shift* the working points around. Meaning no cathode bias.
No R-C coupling to any tube that can draw grid current.....
And meaning *big* "unmoveable" caps in the PSU.
On the other hand, I've found that with small PSU caps, cap-coupling to
output tubes, and cathode bias,-the working points,
especially under heavy loads are prone to wander all over the
place...This gives to my ears a dynamically challenged sound,
anemic,flat, but sometimes "falsely detailed", I guess due to subtle
compression action..I don't want this. Canned music is
compressed enough as it is!
When I make PSU's for my designs, I'm really conserned with
just two things:
To try to rectify the AC with as little noise induced in the
mains-tranny and gnd. as possible, *to supress common mode
noise*. Common mode noise is really bad. Yet no one seems to
bother!!...
Common mode noise makes noise currents run in the gnd.-path between the
various amps or signal sources,-and as no gnd. path
is of zero resistance, *a noise signal is develloped that is put
in series with your signal to be amplified*: Supress the common
mode noise and get rid of the subtle grunge in your sound....
Number two: I use *big* caps to make unmovable, diff-mode noise
free supply voltages. Now,-if the supply voltage is *stable* deep
into the clipping region,-how can it be "slow" ??
Regards,
Torbjoern Lien
> From: Kurt Steffensen <solvin-aurum@get2net.dk>
> As all these happens very fast , but fully within the audio range ,
these changes ,
> appears as "ringning" or fast unpredictable oscillations.(Not
visuable with sines)
> Further is influence the dynamics , and power output of the system.
> The ringning is mainly due to the reaction between the Z of the
transformer ,
> and the capacity of the capacitors.
>
> Low-Z , transformers and low DC-Ohm chokes, and LOTS of uF´s , makes
> the amplifier more , dynamic ,steady and lowers the DYNAMIC
distortion.
>
Yeppyepp !!
=========================================================================
From: Joe Pledger <doodle@navicom.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 21:46:52 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n021
Dave Slagle wrote:
>
> >Exactly. Any musical transient that causes the load on the PS to
> >increase dramatically causes the increase in load AT SOME AF FREQUENCY
Hi Dave,
Sounds reasonable, everything has a frequency!
> >based on the musical signal. At that AF frequency, the impeadance of
> >the low dcr choke is 10s to 1000s of times the dcr anyway...
-Well what I've ended up with is a little high on the dcr
spectrum...but the junk box being what it is...!
> OK I may be in a bit over my head here, but aren't we talking about
> electrons and ohms law here???
>
> I do not see where the frequency comes into it.... I thought the idea of
> the chokes reactance was to hinder the AC signals, yet provide an easy path
> for DC, and the caps were to deal with the transient power needs.
>
> when the transient happens at 1K the power supply doesn't supply a 1K signal
> to replace it... it just sends some more electrons down the pipe (well...
> sucks them up) and the dcr of the choke is what rules the electrons
> domain... not the impedance
>
> in one sense, ideally we want a large bank of capacitors to supply infinite
> power... but we have to remember that every electron we take from a cap has
> to be replaced... and the higher the DCR the harder it is to replace.
>
> so if we want that rock solid supply via large caps I would think we would
> still want a low impedance replacement mechanism... as soon as a cap gets
> discharged... it wants to be charged... so the big transient that instantly
> lowers the resivoir... immediately commands a huge amount from the charging
> circuit if you will... and we are talking current here... if the PT cannot
> provide it... it will sag and that sag will be voltage which tosses the
> rock solid supply out the window.
>
> I guess the problem I have with large amounts of capacitence involves the
> idea that I do not like the sound of the caps required to get these large
> values.
>
> I have always preferred lower amounts of oil caps to any other type I have
> tried... they seem to do less damage to the sound.
>
> Of course I have not tried every cap out there... but I would rather have
> 50mics of oil caps in my PS than 50 mics of elna's or solens... I also
> believe that 50 mics of solens has the same signature as 200 mics of
> solens... they just seem to add something annoying to the sound.
>
> Logistically going for the mega oil-cap supply is a possibility, but my
> limited experiences... and listening to people whose ears I trust have me
> comfortable with just enough oil caps in my filters to get the ripple to a
> bearable level.... and doubling or quadripleing this value has showed me no
> reward thus far... someday maybe 10X or 100X may be tried, but for now I am
> happy.
>
> so maybe the big cap vs. small cap group merely have different tastes and
> choose different compromises... my current compromise being smaller amounts
> of oil caps.
- Perhaps so...back to the junk box, I'm tryin a few of those
"one-time-purchase" caps from Doc B' dumpster dive...36uf, 3.6KVDC
"K-Film" caps and a couple 6uf,600VDC oil caps. So, where does the
optimun mix come in? I've seen high valuse caps followed by low
value...whatever...and the other way around. Is there a frequency
handicap involved with using same value caps throughout a PS? Some of
this was covered before, but I can't find it. Just how are we shaping
the output bandwith by cap selection in the PS?
Thanks for the bandwidth,
Joe Pledger
> I guess this is just a different road... eventually we may all get to the
> same point, I guess the key is to get there your own way, and enjoy the
> music while you do it.
>
> as for the original poster... I say go for the toroid... the specs and price
> and my personal results with using them make a good compromise... If you try
> them and they suck... you will know to not listen to me anymore....
>
> the nice low DCR power supply, and those permalloy outputs should make a
> beautiful sounding amp! or at least one that suits my tastes well.
>
>
> dave
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:15:01 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n021
At 12:01 AM +0100 2/2/99, Torbjørn Lien wrote:
>If the quest is for *real* dynamics, unconditionally stable operation
>and a fast recovery , one simply has to *keep all DC
>working points as stable as possible*. Simple as that. Meaning adequate
>iron to load caps, and as few caps as possible to
>*shift* the working points around. Meaning no cathode bias.
>No R-C coupling to any tube that can draw grid current.....
>And meaning *big* "unmoveable" caps in the PSU.
I'm definitely in agreement here, brother.
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: "Dave Slagle" <dslagle@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 23:21:24 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n021
>Exactly. Any musical transient that causes the load on the PS to
>increase dramatically causes the increase in load AT SOME AF FREQUENCY
>based on the musical signal. At that AF frequency, the impeadance of
>the low dcr choke is 10s to 1000s of times the dcr anyway...
OK I may be in a bit over my head here, but aren't we talking about
electrons and ohms law here???
I do not see where the frequency comes into it.... I thought the idea of
the chokes reactance was to hinder the AC signals, yet provide an easy path
for DC, and the caps were to deal with the transient power needs.
when the transient happens at 1K the power supply doesn't supply a 1K signal
to replace it... it just sends some more electrons down the pipe (well...
sucks them up) and the dcr of the choke is what rules the electrons
domain... not the impedance
in one sense, ideally we want a large bank of capacitors to supply infinite
power... but we have to remember that every electron we take from a cap has
to be replaced... and the higher the DCR the harder it is to replace.
so if we want that rock solid supply via large caps I would think we would
still want a low impedance replacement mechanism... as soon as a cap gets
discharged... it wants to be charged... so the big transient that instantly
lowers the resivoir... immediately commands a huge amount from the charging
circuit if you will... and we are talking current here... if the PT cannot
provide it... it will sag and that sag will be voltage which tosses the
rock solid supply out the window.
I guess the problem I have with large amounts of capacitence involves the
idea that I do not like the sound of the caps required to get these large
values.
I have always preferred lower amounts of oil caps to any other type I have
tried... they seem to do less damage to the sound.
Of course I have not tried every cap out there... but I would rather have
50mics of oil caps in my PS than 50 mics of elna's or solens... I also
believe that 50 mics of solens has the same signature as 200 mics of
solens... they just seem to add something annoying to the sound.
Logistically going for the mega oil-cap supply is a possibility, but my
limited experiences... and listening to people whose ears I trust have me
comfortable with just enough oil caps in my filters to get the ripple to a
bearable level.... and doubling or quadripleing this value has showed me no
reward thus far... someday maybe 10X or 100X may be tried, but for now I am
happy.
so maybe the big cap vs. small cap group merely have different tastes and
choose different compromises... my current compromise being smaller amounts
of oil caps.
I guess this is just a different road... eventually we may all get to the
same point, I guess the key is to get there your own way, and enjoy the
music while you do it.
as for the original poster... I say go for the toroid... the specs and price
and my personal results with using them make a good compromise... If you try
them and they suck... you will know to not listen to me anymore....
the nice low DCR power supply, and those permalloy outputs should make a
beautiful sounding amp! or at least one that suits my tastes well.
dave
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 23:58:07 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n021
Dave Slagle wrote:
>
> >Exactly. Any musical transient that causes the load on the PS to
> >increase dramatically causes the increase in load AT SOME AF FREQUENCY
> >based on the musical signal. At that AF frequency, the impeadance of
> >the low dcr choke is 10s to 1000s of times the dcr anyway...
>
> OK I may be in a bit over my head here, but aren't we talking about
> electrons and ohms law here???
>
> I do not see where the frequency comes into it.... I thought the idea of
> the chokes reactance was to hinder the AC signals, yet provide an easy path
> for DC, and the caps were to deal with the transient power needs.
>
> when the transient happens at 1K the power supply doesn't supply a 1K signal
> to replace it... it just sends some more electrons down the pipe (well...
> sucks them up) and the dcr of the choke is what rules the electrons
> domain... not the impedance
>
Ah, but in order to recharge (or, maintain charge in) the cap in
response to the 1K transient, we have to change the current through the
choke (which chokes don't like) at a frequency of 1K, or the voltage
falls if we can't recharge it fast/soon enough. In order to maintain
constant voltage at all times, we have to respond as quickly to changes
in demand as those changes....
> in one sense, ideally we want a large bank of capacitors to supply infinite
> power... but we have to remember that every electron we take from a cap has
> to be replaced... and the higher the DCR the harder it is to replace.
As explained above, for the transient condition it's the reactance we
need to worry about, since it's generally some orders of magnitude
greater than the dc resistance.
>
> so if we want that rock solid supply via large caps I would think we would
> still want a low impedance replacement mechanism... as soon as a cap gets
> discharged... it wants to be charged... so the big transient that instantly
> lowers the resivoir... immediately commands a huge amount from the charging
> circuit if you will... and we are talking current here...
Indeed, we are talking current, but you can't instantly change the
current through an inductor without developing infinite voltage across
the inductor.
> if the PT cannot
> provide it... it will sag and that sag will be voltage which tosses the
> rock solid supply out the window.
>
> I guess the problem I have with large amounts of capacitence involves the
> idea that I do not like the sound of the caps required to get these large
> values.
>
That's a whole nother issue....
Snip...
Peace
- --
Roscoe Primrose
- -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com -- http://www.aiko.com/roscoe --
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
=========================================================================
From: Steve Berger <aprilsound@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 03:26:41 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n021
Hello again Torbjorn:
All I can say is, be unreasonable for a moment and try what we are
talking about. Use LOW DCR chokes and small film and oil caps! Just try
it. Then lets talk.
Yours truly,
Steve
- --
Steve Berger <http://home.earthlink.net/~aprilsound/>
=========================================================================
From: "blackie" <blackie@mail.infohouse.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:08:22 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n021
> From: "Torbjorn Lien" <mdrivekl@online.no>
> To: "Kurt Steffensen" <solvin-aurum@get2net.dk>,
> "Chris Beck" <n9zes@execpc.com>
> Cc: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>, <sound@lists.io.com>
> Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
> Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 00:01:20 +0100
> Hello,-
> Seems that there is a groving consensus of the PSU consept described by
> lotsa' iron and *small* caps,-this then to lead
> to the most musically, most artistically resolving, to the
> most natural "speed" of sound ???......
>
> I must say that I'm puzzeled,-this approach goes against all
> my own experiences,-so I really wonder why,-
> I have worked with and on several amps and gathered insight
> especially when working on amps for electric guitars and basses:
> Amps like these are working under far heavier and more difficult
> situations than amps for home audio ever will. The dynamic of
> the input signal isn't restricted, as in canned music. Or,-it can be
> the opposit situation too: Often there is a constant balancing act,-not
> to drive the amp into clipping or saturation,-
> Yes I know,-These are really two different worlds,-but still...
> What is "subtle changes" in a home-audio amp really show up in
> a musical-instrument amp because of the latter ones far more demanding
> usage.
Hmmmm...can't resist this one
This is an interesting comparison...basically the old accuracy vs.
pleasing sound schism
the most popular guitar amp circuits are the old school stuff w/
small caps, small or no chokes, cathode bias, tube rectification.
Pleasing distortion and warm clean sound are the benchmarks, strictly
ear and taste driven...BTW all guitar amp speakers start to roll off
around 5-6k...this is the classic sound.
Most guitar players HATE fast, accurate sounding solid state
amps...too unforgiving, powerful and annoying sounding. Bass players
tend to like more powerful, accurate sounding tube amps like SVT, but
who wants to carry 100 lbs to every gig? They settle for SS...
Ye gads, I cannot tell you how many butchered (added power supply
capacitance and SS rectifiers) Fenders I have restored...
Let's face it, all amps clip, so IMHO why have ugly clipping? The
concept of accuracy in a music reproduction device is something of a
joke...every amp and speaker has a signature...why not a pleasing
one?
I sat down w/ jc and we designed and built an amp that had excellent
numbers using 6550's, hexfreds, ultralinear, big caps, etc. Guess
what? It was no FUN to listen to!!! Pointless, sonically. Went
triode, no NFB, etc. and made an amp that has killer detail but
sounds lively, fun, makes you wanna do the Pee Wee Herman in the
nude!!!
So, like the Wisconsin Clipper and Jazzman Berger sez:
try it, you'll like it!!
da dot da da da da dot da
da dot da da da da dah!
blackie
blackie@tubesville.com
www.tubesville.com
=========================================================================
From: Patrick Currie <tubesguy@chorus.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 1999 23:01:33 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n022
> Common mode noise is really bad. Yet no one seems to
>bother!!...
>Common mode noise makes noise currents run in the gnd.-path between the
>various amps or signal sources,-and as no gnd. path
>is of zero resistance, *a noise signal is develloped that is put
>in series with your signal to be amplified*: Supress the common
>mode noise and get rid of the subtle grunge in your sound....
>Regards,
>Torbjoern Lien
Torbjoern -
Come to VSAC next year and speak with "Buddha" Camille. He is concerned
about the same issues, and his PS was a major improvement in my 845 amp. -
Pat
=========================================================================
From: "Chris Beck" <cbeck@brewercompany.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 07:23:30 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n022
Dave,
Regarding the Solens. These are supposed to be ultra low ESR, correct? Is
it feasible that the "annoying" sound that people say these produce is
caused by undamped ultrasonic ringing? I've seen schematics where people
put resistors in series with the caps, which goes against my idea of low
ESR, then. But, considering caps and inductors constitute a resonant tank
circuit at a particular frequency, would it not make sense that a little
resistance would damp this out? I think it's called filter bounce? Maybe
that's why people like those old paper/oil caps. They are just lossy
enough to smooth things out, but the dielectric doesn't screw up the sound
like a electrolytic.
Just a thought....
Chris Beck
See my web page at: http://www.execpc.com/~n9zes/index.htm
- ----------
> From: Dave Slagle <dslagle@earthlink.net>
> To: sound@lists.io.com
> Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
> Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 10:21 PM
>
>
> >Exactly. Any musical transient that causes the load on the PS to
> >increase dramatically causes the increase in load AT SOME AF FREQUENCY
> >based on the musical signal. At that AF frequency, the impeadance of
> >the low dcr choke is 10s to 1000s of times the dcr anyway...
>
> OK I may be in a bit over my head here, but aren't we talking about
> electrons and ohms law here???
>
> I do not see where the frequency comes into it.... I thought the idea of
> the chokes reactance was to hinder the AC signals, yet provide an easy
path
> for DC, and the caps were to deal with the transient power needs.
>
> when the transient happens at 1K the power supply doesn't supply a 1K
signal
> to replace it... it just sends some more electrons down the pipe (well...
> sucks them up) and the dcr of the choke is what rules the electrons
> domain... not the impedance
>
> in one sense, ideally we want a large bank of capacitors to supply
infinite
> power... but we have to remember that every electron we take from a cap
has
> to be replaced... and the higher the DCR the harder it is to replace.
>
> so if we want that rock solid supply via large caps I would think we
would
> still want a low impedance replacement mechanism... as soon as a cap gets
> discharged... it wants to be charged... so the big transient that
instantly
> lowers the resivoir... immediately commands a huge amount from the
charging
> circuit if you will... and we are talking current here... if the PT
cannot
> provide it... it will sag and that sag will be voltage which tosses the
> rock solid supply out the window.
>
> I guess the problem I have with large amounts of capacitence involves the
> idea that I do not like the sound of the caps required to get these large
> values.
>
> I have always preferred lower amounts of oil caps to any other type I
have
> tried... they seem to do less damage to the sound.
>
> Of course I have not tried every cap out there... but I would rather have
> 50mics of oil caps in my PS than 50 mics of elna's or solens... I also
> believe that 50 mics of solens has the same signature as 200 mics of
> solens... they just seem to add something annoying to the sound.
>
> Logistically going for the mega oil-cap supply is a possibility, but my
> limited experiences... and listening to people whose ears I trust have me
> comfortable with just enough oil caps in my filters to get the ripple to
a
> bearable level.... and doubling or quadripleing this value has showed me
no
> reward thus far... someday maybe 10X or 100X may be tried, but for now I
am
> happy.
>
> so maybe the big cap vs. small cap group merely have different tastes and
> choose different compromises... my current compromise being smaller
amounts
> of oil caps.
>
> I guess this is just a different road... eventually we may all get to the
> same point, I guess the key is to get there your own way, and enjoy the
> music while you do it.
>
> as for the original poster... I say go for the toroid... the specs and
price
> and my personal results with using them make a good compromise... If you
try
> them and they suck... you will know to not listen to me anymore....
>
> the nice low DCR power supply, and those permalloy outputs should make a
> beautiful sounding amp! or at least one that suits my tastes well.
>
>
> dave
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (dave slagle)
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:12:06 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n022
>Dave,
>
>Regarding the Solens. These are supposed to be ultra low ESR, correct? Is
>it feasible that the "annoying" sound that people say these produce is
>caused by undamped ultrasonic ringing?
or how about undamped mechanical ringing???
I have heard it posed that oil caps are not dull, all other caps ring like
a bell...
I have heard if you cut open many of the motor start caps, they are a solen
like cap in a can of oil, yet they still do not have the solen-like
sound... could it just be the oil mechanically damping the cap???
many people like the "detail" of a cap but often I feel the added detail of
many caps is not actually the cap revealing some hidden info, but it adding
some.
it just becomes a cup is 1/2 empty vs 1/2 full and my viewpoint at the
moment are oil caps do not remove any info... if they sound dull in your
system you should look elsewhere for a solution...
I have no problems choosing parts for their sonic signature, often when my
system gets a little dull sounding, I'll toss a solen in... it does fine
for a day or two, but then starts to annoy the hell out of me... so back
goes the oil.
>I've seen schematics where people
>put resistors in series with the caps, which goes against my idea of low
>ESR, then. But, considering caps and inductors constitute a resonant tank
>circuit at a particular frequency, would it not make sense that a little
>resistance would damp this out? I think it's called filter bounce?
I say avoid the problem in the first place and you don't have to fix it...
I suppose it just becomes another compromise the designer makes, I will
give up a bit of chasis space and overall capacitance even deal with a
little hum in order to avoid the solen or elna cap... believe me If I
found a small large value cap that sounded good, I would use it... and if
this cap in 500mfd sounded better than 50mfd.. I would do it... as of yet
I have not found this to be the case... I still keep it as an option... its
not real high on my list.
dave
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (dave slagle)
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 09:32:55 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n022
> coupling capacitors. We then sat down a selection of audiophiles and
>flicked >the switch. Nobody could hear any difference.
I have to admit, I have never really heard much of a difference in coupling
caps either... I never seemed to like any of them...
power supply caps on the other hand.... they see a much different type of
signal... and have a huge impact on the final flavor of the amp... at least
in mine they do.
dave
=========================================================================
From: "David B. Klein" <dklein@microtec.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 09:48:31
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n022
A 02:01 PM 2/2/99 +0000, Simon Busbridge a écrit :
>Chris,
>
>Can't resist this....the old capacitor riddle....
>
>We did some blind tests here. My student set up a switching box which
>contained AN paper in oil, Solen, Musicap, standard "orange" polyester and
>a control link as coupling capacitors. We then sat down a selection of
>audiophiles and flicked the switch. Nobody could hear any difference.
>And this was after I was convinced as to the way each capacitor sounds
>after playing around with my amps.
>
>We came to the conclusion that other cues, mainly psychological ones, are
>stronger than any audio difference. This ties in with the fact that it
>is almost impossible to measure any acoustic difference between the
>components, at least above - 70 dB, which does throw doubt on the whol
>thing.
>
>Make of this what you will!
Tweaking caps gives the audiophile a sense of control, of doing
*something*, and is comparatively affordable ... and it takes little
technical expertise to do it.
=========================================================================
From: "Chris Beck" <cbeck@brewercompany.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:50:25 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n022
Yup, that's what I use, 440VAC motor run caps. IMO, they sound good. I
forgot where I heard it, maybe is was Jack from E-P telling me he hooked up
a film cap to an AC signal and it sang like a bird.
Chris Beck
See my web page at: http://www.execpc.com/~n9zes/index.htm
- ----------
> From: dave slagle <dslagle@earthlink.net>
> To: sound@deliverator.io.com
> Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
> Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 8:12 AM
>
> >Dave,
> >
> >Regarding the Solens. These are supposed to be ultra low ESR, correct?
Is
> >it feasible that the "annoying" sound that people say these produce is
> >caused by undamped ultrasonic ringing?
>
> or how about undamped mechanical ringing???
>
> I have heard it posed that oil caps are not dull, all other caps ring
like
> a bell...
>
> I have heard if you cut open many of the motor start caps, they are a
solen
> like cap in a can of oil, yet they still do not have the solen-like
> sound... could it just be the oil mechanically damping the cap???
>
> many people like the "detail" of a cap but often I feel the added detail
of
> many caps is not actually the cap revealing some hidden info, but it
adding
> some.
>
> it just becomes a cup is 1/2 empty vs 1/2 full and my viewpoint at the
> moment are oil caps do not remove any info... if they sound dull in your
> system you should look elsewhere for a solution...
>
> I have no problems choosing parts for their sonic signature, often when
my
> system gets a little dull sounding, I'll toss a solen in... it does fine
> for a day or two, but then starts to annoy the hell out of me... so back
> goes the oil.
>
> >I've seen schematics where people
> >put resistors in series with the caps, which goes against my idea of low
> >ESR, then. But, considering caps and inductors constitute a resonant
tank
> >circuit at a particular frequency, would it not make sense that a little
> >resistance would damp this out? I think it's called filter bounce?
>
> I say avoid the problem in the first place and you don't have to fix
it...
> I suppose it just becomes another compromise the designer makes, I will
> give up a bit of chasis space and overall capacitance even deal with a
> little hum in order to avoid the solen or elna cap... believe me If I
> found a small large value cap that sounded good, I would use it... and if
> this cap in 500mfd sounded better than 50mfd.. I would do it... as of
yet
> I have not found this to be the case... I still keep it as an option...
its
> not real high on my list.
>
>
> dave
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:27:17 -0600 (CST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n022
On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Steve Berger wrote:
> Hello again Torbjorn:
> All I can say is, be unreasonable for a moment and try what we are
> talking about. Use LOW DCR chokes and small film and oil caps! Just try
> it. Then lets talk.
So... if we're using vintage oil caps or motor start caps in the power
supply, how much capacitance is really needed? Can i get away with 30uf
with a choke input, or do i need to find square meters of chassis to have
100+uf of oil caps? Any good rules of thumb?
- -dave (wondering what he can cram on 4 9x10" chassis plates)
Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless.
<dstagner@icarus.net>
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:01:09 +0000 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n022
Chris,
Can't resist this....the old capacitor riddle....
We did some blind tests here. My student set up a switching box which
contained AN paper in oil, Solen, Musicap, standard "orange" polyester and
a control link as coupling capacitors. We then sat down a selection of
audiophiles and flicked the switch. Nobody could hear any difference.
And this was after I was convinced as to the way each capacitor sounds
after playing around with my amps.
We came to the conclusion that other cues, mainly psychological ones, are
stronger than any audio difference. This ties in with the fact that it
is almost impossible to measure any acoustic difference between the
components, at least above - 70 dB, which does throw doubt on the whol
thing.
Make of this what you will!
Best wishes
Simon
Dr Simon Busbridge
School of Engineering
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327/642301
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk, scbusbridge@hotmail.com
On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Chris Beck wrote:
> Dave,
>
> Regarding the Solens. These are supposed to be ultra low ESR, correct? Is
> it feasible that the "annoying" sound that people say these produce is
> caused by undamped ultrasonic ringing? I've seen schematics where people
> put resistors in series with the caps, which goes against my idea of low
> ESR, then. But, considering caps and inductors constitute a resonant tank
> circuit at a particular frequency, would it not make sense that a little
> resistance would damp this out? I think it's called filter bounce? Maybe
> that's why people like those old paper/oil caps. They are just lossy
> enough to smooth things out, but the dielectric doesn't screw up the sound
> like a electrolytic.
>
> Just a thought....
>
> Chris Beck
>
> See my web page at: http://www.execpc.com/~n9zes/index.htm
>
> ----------
> > From: Dave Slagle <dslagle@earthlink.net>
> > To: sound@lists.io.com
> > Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
> > Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 10:21 PM
> >
> >
> > >Exactly. Any musical transient that causes the load on the PS to
> > >increase dramatically causes the increase in load AT SOME AF FREQUENCY
> > >based on the musical signal. At that AF frequency, the impeadance of
> > >the low dcr choke is 10s to 1000s of times the dcr anyway...
> >
> > OK I may be in a bit over my head here, but aren't we talking about
> > electrons and ohms law here???
> >
> > I do not see where the frequency comes into it.... I thought the idea of
> > the chokes reactance was to hinder the AC signals, yet provide an easy
> path
> > for DC, and the caps were to deal with the transient power needs.
> >
> > when the transient happens at 1K the power supply doesn't supply a 1K
> signal
> > to replace it... it just sends some more electrons down the pipe (well...
> > sucks them up) and the dcr of the choke is what rules the electrons
> > domain... not the impedance
> >
> > in one sense, ideally we want a large bank of capacitors to supply
> infinite
> > power... but we have to remember that every electron we take from a cap
> has
> > to be replaced... and the higher the DCR the harder it is to replace.
> >
> > so if we want that rock solid supply via large caps I would think we
> would
> > still want a low impedance replacement mechanism... as soon as a cap gets
> > discharged... it wants to be charged... so the big transient that
> instantly
> > lowers the resivoir... immediately commands a huge amount from the
> charging
> > circuit if you will... and we are talking current here... if the PT
> cannot
> > provide it... it will sag and that sag will be voltage which tosses the
> > rock solid supply out the window.
> >
> > I guess the problem I have with large amounts of capacitence involves the
> > idea that I do not like the sound of the caps required to get these large
> > values.
> >
> > I have always preferred lower amounts of oil caps to any other type I
> have
> > tried... they seem to do less damage to the sound.
> >
> > Of course I have not tried every cap out there... but I would rather have
> > 50mics of oil caps in my PS than 50 mics of elna's or solens... I also
> > believe that 50 mics of solens has the same signature as 200 mics of
> > solens... they just seem to add something annoying to the sound.
> >
> > Logistically going for the mega oil-cap supply is a possibility, but my
> > limited experiences... and listening to people whose ears I trust have me
> > comfortable with just enough oil caps in my filters to get the ripple to
> a
> > bearable level.... and doubling or quadripleing this value has showed me
> no
> > reward thus far... someday maybe 10X or 100X may be tried, but for now I
> am
> > happy.
> >
> > so maybe the big cap vs. small cap group merely have different tastes and
> > choose different compromises... my current compromise being smaller
> amounts
> > of oil caps.
> >
> > I guess this is just a different road... eventually we may all get to the
> > same point, I guess the key is to get there your own way, and enjoy the
> > music while you do it.
> >
> > as for the original poster... I say go for the toroid... the specs and
> price
> > and my personal results with using them make a good compromise... If you
> try
> > them and they suck... you will know to not listen to me anymore....
> >
> > the nice low DCR power supply, and those permalloy outputs should make a
> > beautiful sounding amp! or at least one that suits my tastes well.
> >
> >
> > dave
> >
> >
> >
>
=========================================================================
From: "Chris Beck" <cbeck@brewercompany.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:50:25 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n023
Yup, that's what I use, 440VAC motor run caps. IMO, they sound good. I
forgot where I heard it, maybe is was Jack from E-P telling me he hooked up
a film cap to an AC signal and it sang like a bird.
Chris Beck
See my web page at: http://www.execpc.com/~n9zes/index.htm
- ----------
> From: dave slagle <dslagle@earthlink.net>
> To: sound@deliverator.io.com
> Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
> Date: Tuesday, February 02, 1999 8:12 AM
>
> >Dave,
> >
> >Regarding the Solens. These are supposed to be ultra low ESR, correct?
Is
> >it feasible that the "annoying" sound that people say these produce is
> >caused by undamped ultrasonic ringing?
>
> or how about undamped mechanical ringing???
>
> I have heard it posed that oil caps are not dull, all other caps ring
like
> a bell...
>
> I have heard if you cut open many of the motor start caps, they are a
solen
> like cap in a can of oil, yet they still do not have the solen-like
> sound... could it just be the oil mechanically damping the cap???
>
> many people like the "detail" of a cap but often I feel the added detail
of
> many caps is not actually the cap revealing some hidden info, but it
adding
> some.
>
> it just becomes a cup is 1/2 empty vs 1/2 full and my viewpoint at the
> moment are oil caps do not remove any info... if they sound dull in your
> system you should look elsewhere for a solution...
>
> I have no problems choosing parts for their sonic signature, often when
my
> system gets a little dull sounding, I'll toss a solen in... it does fine
> for a day or two, but then starts to annoy the hell out of me... so back
> goes the oil.
>
> >I've seen schematics where people
> >put resistors in series with the caps, which goes against my idea of low
> >ESR, then. But, considering caps and inductors constitute a resonant
tank
> >circuit at a particular frequency, would it not make sense that a little
> >resistance would damp this out? I think it's called filter bounce?
>
> I say avoid the problem in the first place and you don't have to fix
it...
> I suppose it just becomes another compromise the designer makes, I will
> give up a bit of chasis space and overall capacitance even deal with a
> little hum in order to avoid the solen or elna cap... believe me If I
> found a small large value cap that sounded good, I would use it... and if
> this cap in 500mfd sounded better than 50mfd.. I would do it... as of
yet
> I have not found this to be the case... I still keep it as an option...
its
> not real high on my list.
>
>
> dave
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Steve Berger <aprilsound@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 13:03:49 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n023
>
> So... if we're using vintage oil caps or motor start caps in the power
> supply, how much capacitance is really needed? Can i get away with 30uf
> with a choke input, or do i need to find square meters of chassis to have
Hi Dave:
I would think that you will have to use a second choke and cap.
I would try 5 henry-10mf-5henry-30mf.
Give it a go, I think you will be suprised.
,Steve
- --
Steve Berger <http://home.earthlink.net/~aprilsound/>
=========================================================================
From: "Larry D. Moore" <l-moore@onu.edu>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 14:27:28 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n023
Well, really the next order of business is to decide whether you are using
seperate power supplies for the input and output stages. With just an
output stage, you will need much less, generally, in my experience. Liken
it to S/N ratio, if you will. Or S/R, where R is ripple Ripple has a
greater effect on small signals.
Hope that helps,
L.D. Moore
At 11:27 AM 2/2/99 -0600, Dave Stagner wrote:
>On Tue, 2 Feb 1999, Steve Berger wrote:
>
>> Hello again Torbjorn:
>> All I can say is, be unreasonable for a moment and try what we are
>> talking about. Use LOW DCR chokes and small film and oil caps! Just try
>> it. Then lets talk.
>
>So... if we're using vintage oil caps or motor start caps in the power
>supply, how much capacitance is really needed? Can i get away with 30uf
>with a choke input, or do i need to find square meters of chassis to have
>100+uf of oil caps? Any good rules of thumb?
>
>-dave (wondering what he can cram on 4 9x10" chassis plates)
>
>Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless.
><dstagner@icarus.net>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: davidbarnett@aristotle.net (David Barnett)
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 18:53:35 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n023
On Tue, 2 Feb 1999 08:08:22 +0000, "blackie"
<blackie@mail.infohouse.com> wrote:
>The
>concept of accuracy in a music reproduction device is something of a
>joke...every amp and speaker has a signature...why not a pleasing
>one?
I agree with this only up to a point, and that point is when the
pleasing signature becomes overbearing.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Lien?=" <mdrivekl@online.no>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:48:20 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n024
> From: Steve Berger <aprilsound@earthlink.net>
> Hello again Torbjorn:
> All I can say is, be unreasonable for a moment and try what we
> are talking about. Use LOW DCR chokes and small film and oil
> caps! Just try it. Then lets talk.
Be unreasonable for a moment!..I really like that one, thanks!!:)
(Makes me feel abit like n o r m a l for a little while..)
Well, I guess I have...And although results might be nice and
smoth in the mids, I cannot deal with the lossy bass,-besides
I'm allergic to hum,-Takes away my sleep .....
Have you ever tried this? Run a small cap,- 0,1µF from your B+.
On the other end of the cap,-connect a 1Meg leak to gnd...Now,
this C-R connection is AC output from your supply...
Run this amps channel as normal,-but set the speaker in another room..
Connect the "AC output" to an unused input of your line-stage,-or maybe
direct to your second power out channel..
Play some music through the system,-and listen to the magic of small
caps...
:)
Best regards,
Torbjoern
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
Date: Thu, 04 Feb 1999 19:58:06 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n028
At 07:23 2-2-99 -0600, Chris Beck wrote:
>Dave,
>
>Regarding the Solens. These are supposed to be ultra low ESR, correct?
But ESR usually is lower than the impedance
>Is
>it feasible that the "annoying" sound that people say these produce is
>caused by undamped ultrasonic ringing? I've seen schematics where people
>put resistors in series with the caps, which goes against my idea of low
>ESR, then. But, considering caps and inductors constitute a resonant tank
>circuit at a particular frequency, would it not make sense that a little
>resistance would damp this out? I think it's called filter bounce?
Damping can be obtained by a parallel circuit of R+C
>Maybe
>that's why people like those old paper/oil caps. They are just lossy
>enough to smooth things out, but the dielectric doesn't screw up the sound
>like a electrolytic.
>
>Just a thought....
So why not add 10 ohm in series with the last cap ?
What is 10 ohm compared to 4 k-ohm of trannie and tube ?
Guido
>Chris Beck
>
>See my web page at: http://www.execpc.com/~n9zes/index.htm
>
>----------
>> From: Dave Slagle <dslagle@earthlink.net>
>> To: sound@lists.io.com
>> Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers
>> Date: Monday, February 01, 1999 10:21 PM
>>
>>
>> >Exactly. Any musical transient that causes the load on the PS to
>> >increase dramatically causes the increase in load AT SOME AF FREQUENCY
>> >based on the musical signal. At that AF frequency, the impeadance of
>> >the low dcr choke is 10s to 1000s of times the dcr anyway...
>>
>> OK I may be in a bit over my head here, but aren't we talking about
>> electrons and ohms law here???
>>
>> I do not see where the frequency comes into it.... I thought the idea of
>> the chokes reactance was to hinder the AC signals, yet provide an easy
>path
>> for DC, and the caps were to deal with the transient power needs.
>>
>> when the transient happens at 1K the power supply doesn't supply a 1K
>signal
>> to replace it... it just sends some more electrons down the pipe (well...
>> sucks them up) and the dcr of the choke is what rules the electrons
>> domain... not the impedance
>>
>> in one sense, ideally we want a large bank of capacitors to supply
>infinite
>> power... but we have to remember that every electron we take from a cap
>has
>> to be replaced... and the higher the DCR the harder it is to replace.
>>
>> so if we want that rock solid supply via large caps I would think we
>would
>> still want a low impedance replacement mechanism... as soon as a cap gets
>> discharged... it wants to be charged... so the big transient that
>instantly
>> lowers the resivoir... immediately commands a huge amount from the
>charging
>> circuit if you will... and we are talking current here... if the PT
>cannot
>> provide it... it will sag and that sag will be voltage which tosses the
>> rock solid supply out the window.
>>
>> I guess the problem I have with large amounts of capacitence involves the
>> idea that I do not like the sound of the caps required to get these large
>> values.
>>
>> I have always preferred lower amounts of oil caps to any other type I
>have
>> tried... they seem to do less damage to the sound.
>>
>> Of course I have not tried every cap out there... but I would rather have
>> 50mics of oil caps in my PS than 50 mics of elna's or solens... I also
>> believe that 50 mics of solens has the same signature as 200 mics of
>> solens... they just seem to add something annoying to the sound.
>>
>> Logistically going for the mega oil-cap supply is a possibility, but my
>> limited experiences... and listening to people whose ears I trust have me
>> comfortable with just enough oil caps in my filters to get the ripple to
>a
>> bearable level.... and doubling or quadripleing this value has showed me
>no
>> reward thus far... someday maybe 10X or 100X may be tried, but for now I
>am
>> happy.
>>
>> so maybe the big cap vs. small cap group merely have different tastes and
>> choose different compromises... my current compromise being smaller
>amounts
>> of oil caps.
>>
>> I guess this is just a different road... eventually we may all get to the
>> same point, I guess the key is to get there your own way, and enjoy the
>> music while you do it.
>>
>> as for the original poster... I say go for the toroid... the specs and
>price
>> and my personal results with using them make a good compromise... If you
>try
>> them and they suck... you will know to not listen to me anymore....
>>
>> the nice low DCR power supply, and those permalloy outputs should make a
>> beautiful sounding amp! or at least one that suits my tastes well.
>>
>>
>> dave
>>
>>
>>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers/Cap differences
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 07:28:11 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n022
Hi Simon,
BTW, I have not had success with either of your email addresses, all
have been returned as undelivered several hours after posting them. I
have tried several times and sent two separate test messages again this
morning.
On the immediate subject (coupling caps). I do not claim to be an
authority on this subject by any means. However, it would seem that the
results of such a test as described below would be extremely dependent
upon the quality of the entire system, with moderate-fi systems masking
the differences between capacitors and very high quality systems perhaps
allowing a difference to be heard. Even so, perhaps only to a
relatively small percentage of audiophiles who are blessed with golden
ears (or is that cursed).
Dan Marshall
Simon Busbridge wrote:
>
> Chris,
>
> Can't resist this....the old capacitor riddle....
>
> We did some blind tests here. My student set up a switching box which
> contained AN paper in oil, Solen, Musicap, standard "orange" polyester and
> a control link as coupling capacitors. We then sat down a selection of
> audiophiles and flicked the switch. Nobody could hear any difference.
> And this was after I was convinced as to the way each capacitor sounds
> after playing around with my amps.
>
> We came to the conclusion that other cues, mainly psychological ones, are
> stronger than any audio difference. This ties in with the fact that it
> is almost impossible to measure any acoustic difference between the
> components, at least above - 70 dB, which does throw doubt on the whol
> thing.
>
> Make of this what you will!
>
> Best wishes
>
> Simon
>
=========================================================================
From: "Daniel J. Marshall" <danmarshall@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers/ Free PS program
Date: Tue, 02 Feb 1999 09:44:19 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n022
Hi All,
A while back Duncan Monroe posted an address (on RAT) to a pretty neat
little power supply designer program that can be downloaded and used for
no cost to hobbist/noncommercial use. I don't recall whether it was
dissused here or not. Anyway, I downloaded it and played with it a
little. It is very simple to download and comes with complete
instructions. Since it is a windows program, just direct it to be saved
in the Windows directory. It claims to be a self extracting file, but,
either it is very quick, or is not self extracting for it worked right
off for me. It has complete instructins so no one should have a problem
operating it.
By right clicking on the schematic, several filter configurations can be
selected and analyzed. There is a table to fill in the filter values,
including cap ESR values, choke DC resistance, etc. When it analyzes,
it apparently starts from T zero with a full-tilt, rectified signal.
Accordingly, the output voltage plot not only shows the ripple and DC
voltage values, but also the impulse response of the filter, obviously
related to the input signal. By choosing values correctly, it will ramp
up in a well behaved (well damped) manner. If incorrectly it will ring
on the ramp up, and considerably so, if the values are distorted too
far. I suspect that this can be correlated to load variations, but have
not thought it through (and probably won't, since my old brain is
getting tired of thinking).
Perhaps someone will undertake the task of correlating the input phase
(ringing) characteristcs to those caused by impulse load variation.
Lacking having made some kind of correlation, it would seem that a good
power supply stability test would be to drive the amp with a low
frequency, say a few Hz squarewave, and examine the B+ with a scope and
note whether ringing occurs following the square wave transition. AC
scope coupling and a higher gain setting would allow this characteristic
to be examined very critically. The PS of PP amps could be examined by
modifying the drive to one of the output tubes to make it appear as a SE
to the PS, say, like eliminating the drive to one output tube, or moving
it over to the other phase, whatever, depending on the circuit
topology. This wold cancel the output transformer/load characteristics
though, come to think of it. Haven't taken time to think that through
carefully either. Anyway, have a look-see at it and let others know
what you think.
Dan Marshall
Chris Beck wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> Regarding the Solens. These are supposed to be ultra low ESR, correct? Is
> it feasible that the "annoying" sound that people say these produce is
> caused by undamped ultrasonic ringing? I've seen schematics where people
> put resistors in series with the caps, which goes against my idea of low
> ESR, then. But, considering caps and inductors constitute a resonant tank
> circuit at a particular frequency, would it not make sense that a little
> resistance would damp this out? I think it's called filter bounce? Maybe
> that's why people like those old paper/oil caps. They are just lossy
> enough to smooth things out, but the dielectric doesn't screw up the sound
> like a electrolytic.
>
> Just a thought....
>
> Chris Beck
=========================================================================
From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers/ Free PS program
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 14:51:37 -0400 (AST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n023
So what is the URL for this program. I'll admit I just got new glasses
(really, like 2 hrs ago) but after 5 minutes of searching your post I
couldn't find one.
TIA Dan
Cheers
Richard "maybe I should take these glasses back" Nevill
=========================================================================
From: RALPH POWER <POWER.RALPH@epamail.epa.gov>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers -Reply
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 09:58:43 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n019
Hey guys,
I'll wade in on this one to say that I think all Chris was trying to say was
that you didn't HAVE to use a 500ma tranny to build the amp, NOT that it
wouldn't sound better with one. I think he assumed the guy was a novice
and was just trying to get started and was stuck on finding this big power
tranny. I would have said the same thing to him.
I hope I don't offend anyone with my amp building posts when I give
ball park (low ball) advice on this kind of stuff. Remember JC says
there are 144 ways to build an amp.....
You've got your beginners that just want to get something up and running and
then you got your serious dudes shooting for the outer limits. I'm sure
everyone knows I value simplicity and utility and make great compromises to
maintain those goals. My amps may or may not be the last word in
performance, but they still sound great to me.
After all, there is a minimum of what will work, and then, after that, the sky is
the limit. We all take our choices and balance them according to our own
beliefs and experiences. That's a big part of the mix and what makes each
and every amp unique in it's own right. I don't see a right and wrong way here,
just different philosophies of design...
My 3 cents,
- Ralph
=========================================================================
From: "G. Johnston" <garywj@home.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers -Reply
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 19:27:49 +0900
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n020
Ralph/Steve/Ed, All you guys,
Thanks for your help.
I am trying to remain as faithful to the Flesh and Blood design as
possible. I have slowly compiled all the parts that I need including a
pair of UTC LS-92's that I plan to use as chokes(These mommas are big,
and low DCR, I think 20ohm@8hy, if i am not mistaken), and Tango NY
10429 permalloy outputs.(I also have a pair of the XE-60-5S's, if I want
to try them instead).
I have saved the power transformers for last.
I just find it strange that Herb is using the toroids, because of the
negative feelings that have been expressed here, and elsewhere.
I got the kind of response I thought that i would get from the
group--you guys are certainly opinionated to say the least. And Ralph
is right, I am just a "don't know much kinda schlubb", who wants to make
a good try at a good amp, that maybe isn't too difficult to build--and I
have been seduced by the darkside (Darth Reichert), to try his Flesh and
Blood.
I quess i'll go with the toroids until i feel like trying something
else.
Thanks again,
Gary
RALPH POWER wrote:
>
> Hey guys,
>
> I'll wade in on this one to say that I think all Chris was trying to say was
> that you didn't HAVE to use a 500ma tranny to build the amp, NOT that it
> wouldn't sound better with one. I think he assumed the guy was a novice
> and was just trying to get started and was stuck on finding this big power
> tranny. I would have said the same thing to him.
>
> I hope I don't offend anyone with my amp building posts when I give
> ball park (low ball) advice on this kind of stuff. Remember JC says
> there are 144 ways to build an amp.....
>
> You've got your beginners that just want to get something up and running and
> then you got your serious dudes shooting for the outer limits. I'm sure
> everyone knows I value simplicity and utility and make great compromises to
> maintain those goals. My amps may or may not be the last word in
> performance, but they still sound great to me.
>
> After all, there is a minimum of what will work, and then, after that, the sky is
> the limit. We all take our choices and balance them according to our own
> beliefs and experiences. That's a big part of the mix and what makes each
> and every amp unique in it's own right. I don't see a right and wrong way here,
> just different philosophies of design...
>
> My 3 cents,
>
> - Ralph
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Paul Joppa <pdj@ISDNseattle.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers -Reply
Date: Mon, 01 Feb 1999 21:00:39 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n021
RALPH POWER wrote:
> ...
> You've got your beginners that just want to get something up and running and
> then you got your serious dudes shooting for the outer limits....
> After all, there is a minimum of what will work, and then, after that, the sky is
> the limit....
...heavily snipped...
May I join in and comment - for me at least, single-ended no feedback
triodes and efficient speakers, in almost ANY implementation, sound
significantly more musical than what I had before. The rest is
frosting on the cake - I like it, but I can live without it.
- -Paul Joppa
=========================================================================
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@icarus.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Large Current Power transformers -Reply
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 1999 11:07:25 -0600 (CST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n022
On Mon, 1 Feb 1999, Paul Joppa wrote:
> May I join in and comment - for me at least, single-ended no feedback
> triodes and efficient speakers, in almost ANY implementation, sound
> significantly more musical than what I had before. The rest is
> frosting on the cake - I like it, but I can live without it.
And i won't even exclude push-pull, if it's done right! I don't know what
other PP approaches are effective (yet... i'm currently setting up an amp
for experimentation), but an IT-driven approach similar to Herb Reichert's
"Feral Eye" has worked for me. It gets that magic sound. Whether that's
due to the single-ended driver stage, or the IT itself, i don't know.
Time for more work!
- -dave
Practice beautiful randomness and act kind of senseless.
<dstagner@icarus.net>
=========================================================================
From: Tim_Bailey@medibank.com.au
Subject: [JN] Wanted: Mission 774 (damped) arm
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:47:42 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n420
Reminder,
I would like to find a Mission 774 (the damping pot one), or another SME
3009/SII detachable and damper.
Tell me if either turn up in the UK or USA, as Aus is a very small market.
Regards
Tim B
****************************************************************
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of this message you are hereby notified that you must not
disseminate, copy or take any action based upon it. If you
received this message in error please notify Medibank
Private Ltd immediately. Any views expressed in this
message are those of the individual sender, except where
the sender specifically states them to be the views of
Medibank Private Ltd.
****************************************************************
=========================================================================
From: Tom Ronan <tronan@enteract.com>
Subject: [JN] Wanted: Norelco 12" full range speaker
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 12:36:47 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n309
Hi all,
I'm looking for a match for a single speaker I have. It's made by Norelco
and the model number is AD 5277 M.
Does anyone have one of these? It's an 8 ohm speaker, 12" with a little
whizzer cone. I'm glad to pay a fair price and shipping from anywhere.
Please let me know!
Tom
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Tom Ronan 1045 W. Montana Chicago, IL 60614
Lowther America http://www.lowther-america.com
26 Preamp & Oris 150 Horns http://www.enteract.com/~tronan
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Lien?=" <mdrivekl@online.no>
Subject: [JN] Wanted : One ea. JBL 2470,-any condition
Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 13:50:26 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n283
And since I'm at it:
Want to buy or trade for this driver.
Anyone that has a lonely sample?
*ANY* condition,-blown and misused
(thus cheap) preferred.
Regards
Torbjoern, Norway
=========================================================================
From: "Miroslav Kubala" <mikubala@swissonline.ch>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted : One ea. JBL 2470,-any condition
Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2015 18:42:37 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n284
Hallo Torbjorn
I have alonely Westrex 375=JBL375 alnico
I think it is the same as 2470 but I am not shure
Sell,trade or buy yours
Mirko
www.jurapharmacy.ch
> Want to buy or trade for this driver.
> Anyone that has a lonely sample?
> *ANY* condition,-blown and misused
> (thus cheap) preferred.
>
> Regards
> Torbjoern, Norway
>
=========================================================================
From: "MORTEN OG RIKKE BORUP HANSEN" <morten.rikke@get2net.dk>
Subject: Sv: [JN] Wanted : One ea. JBL 2470,-any condition
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:48:08 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n303
Hey Joes
Got 20 pcs ECC801S Telefunken diamond mark boxed and new. Asking 35USD
each.
Martin
- ----------
| Fra: Scott Grammer <tubedude@sunnetusa.net>
| Til: Miroslav Kubala <mikubala@swissonline.ch>
| Cc: Torbjørn Lien <mdrivekl@online.no>; sound@deliverator.io.com
| Emne: Re: [JN] Wanted : One ea. JBL 2470,-any condition
| Dato: 17. oktober 1999 05:56
|
| Let's do the time warp again.......
|
| It's happening again!
|
| S.G.
|
| Miroslav Kubala wrote:
| >
| > Hallo Torbjorn
| >
| > I have alonely Westrex 375=JBL375 alnico
| > I think it is the same as 2470 but I am not shure
| > Sell,trade or buy yours
| >
| > Mirko
| >
| > www.jurapharmacy.ch
| >
| > > Want to buy or trade for this driver.
| > > Anyone that has a lonely sample?
| > > *ANY* condition,-blown and misused
| > > (thus cheap) preferred.
| > >
| > > Regards
| > > Torbjoern, Norway
| > >
|
| --
| "To save every cog and wheel is the first
| precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
|
| What if there were no hypothetical questions?
=========================================================================
From: "MORTEN OG RIKKE BORUP HANSEN" <morten.rikke@get2net.dk>
Subject: Sv: [JN] Wanted : One ea. JBL 2470,-any condition
Date: Thu, 7 Oct 1999 01:49:48 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n303
Hey Joes
|
| Got 20 pcs ECC801S Telefunken diamond mark boxed and new. Asking 35USD
| each.
|
| Martin
- ----------
| Fra: MORTEN OG RIKKE BORUP HANSEN <morten.rikke@get2net.dk>
| Til: Scott Grammer <tubedude@sunnetusa.net>; Miroslav Kubala
<mikubala@swissonline.ch>
| Cc: Torbjørn Lien <mdrivekl@online.no>; sound@deliverator.io.com
| Emne: Sv: [JN] Wanted : One ea. JBL 2470,-any condition
| Dato: 7. oktober 1999 01:48
|
| |
| ----------
| | Fra: Scott Grammer <tubedude@sunnetusa.net>
| | Til: Miroslav Kubala <mikubala@swissonline.ch>
| | Cc: Torbjørn Lien <mdrivekl@online.no>; sound@deliverator.io.com
| | Emne: Re: [JN] Wanted : One ea. JBL 2470,-any condition
| | Dato: 17. oktober 1999 05:56
| |
| | Let's do the time warp again.......
| |
| | It's happening again!
| |
| | S.G.
| |
| | Miroslav Kubala wrote:
| | >
| | > Hallo Torbjorn
| | >
| | > I have alonely Westrex 375=JBL375 alnico
| | > I think it is the same as 2470 but I am not shure
| | > Sell,trade or buy yours
| | >
| | > Mirko
| | >
| | > www.jurapharmacy.ch
| | >
| | > > Want to buy or trade for this driver.
| | > > Anyone that has a lonely sample?
| | > > *ANY* condition,-blown and misused
| | > > (thus cheap) preferred.
| | > >
| | > > Regards
| | > > Torbjoern, Norway
| | > >
| |
| | --
| | "To save every cog and wheel is the first
| | precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
| |
| | What if there were no hypothetical questions?
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@sunnetusa.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted : One ea. JBL 2470,-any condition
Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 23:56:33 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n303
Let's do the time warp again.......
It's happening again!
S.G.
Miroslav Kubala wrote:
>
> Hallo Torbjorn
>
> I have alonely Westrex 375=JBL375 alnico
> I think it is the same as 2470 but I am not shure
> Sell,trade or buy yours
>
> Mirko
>
> www.jurapharmacy.ch
>
> > Want to buy or trade for this driver.
> > Anyone that has a lonely sample?
> > *ANY* condition,-blown and misused
> > (thus cheap) preferred.
> >
> > Regards
> > Torbjoern, Norway
> >
- --
"To save every cog and wheel is the first
precaution of intelligent tinkering." -Aldo Leopold.
What if there were no hypothetical questions?
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Dunker <dunker@invalid.ed.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted : One ea. JBL 2470,-any condition
Date: Sun, 17 Oct 1999 12:54:06 +0200 (CEST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n303
On Sat, 16 Oct 1999, Scott Grammer wrote:
> Miroslav Kubala wrote:
> >
> > Hallo Torbjorn
> >
> > I have alonely Westrex 375=JBL375 alnico
> > I think it is the same as 2470 but I am not shure
> > Sell,trade or buy yours
The 375 is the "PM version" of the classic WE594A. It's equivalent to
the 2440. These are all 2" exit, 4" diaphragm drivers.
The 2470, OTOH, is a 1" exit 1.75" diaphragm driver. Same motor system as
2420/LE85, but came with phenolic diaphragm.
Looking for a pair of LE85/2420 or 2470 myself, btw.
Tom
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
_/_ Thomas Dunker \ The Horn Speaker Home Page:
/ \ P.O.Box 2811 \ http://invalid.ed.ntnu.no/~dunker/horns.html
| | 7002 Trondheim \
| | NORWAY \--\ "Those with head above water
____/ dunker@omegav.ntnu.no \ see only the tip of the iceberg"
|||| phone: (+47)73911068 \ (Gene Dalby)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Dunker <dunker@invalid.ed.ntnu.no>
Subject: [JN] Wanted: Philips AG9015 amp schematic
Date: Tue, 2 Nov 1999 13:37:14 +0100 (CET)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n320
Hello,
A while back someone (Guido?) offered me a copy of the schematic for the
Philips AG9015 stereo amp. (Picked one up at a flea market this summer.)
Could this someone drop me a line, as I still don't have the diagrams.
If the schematic is in Rodenhuis' Philips amp book (which I
have laying around somewhere), don't bother.
For anyone interested, I found some info on this amp here:
http://perso.easynet.fr/~pjeantaud/stereo_console/philips/ag9015.html
I just got this thing running this morning, after having replaced the
EL86 output tubes (thank you Kurt!). It seems to work fine, except for
a scratchy volume pot. Amazing, considering that the original 'lytics
are still in there. According to the radio tax stamp on the bottom,
the amp was sold around 1951, at the price of NOK 990, about 150 1951
dollars I guess...
The only thing I could imagine using this amp for would be for a pair of
surround channels (I DO enjoy watching DVD movies). Who else uses a fifty
year old tube amp for surround channels?? Now I'll just have to whip
together a tubed surround processor.... :-) (Passive/matrix of course.)
I would like to find a pair of
the high impedance AD 5046 speakers that were originally designed for this
amp (OTL mode), or whatever drivers were used in those speakers. Clues,
anyone?
Tom
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
_/\_ Thomas Dunker \ The Horn Speaker Home Page:
/ \ P.O.Box 2811 \ http://invalid.ed.ntnu.no/~dunker/horns.html
| | 7002 Trondheim \
| | NORWAY \--\ "Those with head above water
\____/ dunker@omegav.ntnu.no \ see only the tip of the iceberg"
|||| phone: (+47)73911068 \ (Gene Dalby)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: Peter Sikking <guigurus@xs4all.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: Philips AG9015 amp schematic
Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 14:13:57 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n320
Thomas,
> A while back someone (Guido?) offered me a copy of the schematic for the
> Philips AG9015 stereo amp. (Picked one up at a flea market this summer.)
This is the first tubeamp I bought and still my current test-bed.
I have the technical manual (in dutch) for this amp and his '14/'18 brothers,
and a scientific article (in english) by the Philips dudes describing the
SEPP OTL (and a parafeed transformer for 8/16 Ohm compatibility) output stage
and the tricky (+ & - feedback) driver stage.
I moved into my new flat yesterday, so it's in a box, but I think I
can fax you this in a day or two.
> I just got this thing running this morning, after having replaced the
> EL86 output tubes (thank you Kurt!). It seems to work fine, except for
> a scratchy volume pot. Amazing, considering that the original 'lytics
> are still in there. According to the radio tax stamp on the bottom,
> the amp was sold around 1951, at the price of NOK 990, about 150 1951
> dollars I guess...
Wow, 1951. From the article publishing date I would have guessed ~'62.
I also ran the amp with it's original capacitors for the first year I
owned it.
I have done oodles of mod's to this amp an can share the resulting
experience with you if you want. Here is a first tip:
My old infinity's (~4 Ohm) sounded fine on the 8 Ohm tap--and my current
Spendor's (8 Ohm) sound better on the 16 Ohm tap. I'd say try it...
I am still amazed how (with some mods) good this amp sounds.
So musical, no harshness, a giant killer...
> I would like to find a pair of
> the high impedance AD 5046 speakers that were originally designed for this
> amp (OTL mode), or whatever drivers were used in those speakers. Clues,
> anyone?
I bought 800 and 400 Ohm drivers (9017 ?) from Guido, these are still waiting
for me to aquire woodworking skills...
--Peter
: music lover : ultra-fi builder : ui & oo designer & developer : on drums...
: from:amsterdam@berlin : +49 173 800 60 37 : facsimile +49 30 390 94 300
=========================================================================
From: Chris Beck <europachris@netscape.net>
Subject: [JN] Wanted - preamp with phono stage
Date: 25 Jan 00 15:54:23 CST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n418
Hi gang,
I'm looking for a preamp with phono stage to set my Dad up with to go along
with my PP SV83 amp I built. I'd build one, but I'm pretty short on free time
right now. Something vintage along the lines of a PAS-3 would be just fine.
He's not a big audiophile, but enjoys his jazz LP's and CD's. I'm looking to
spend <$500. Even a decent solid state unit would be acceptable, but tubes
are first preference. It also needs to be cosmetically in clean condition.
Does anyone have something they'd like to give a good home too?
Thanks!
Chris
____________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape WebMail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com.
=========================================================================
From: analogtubeaudio@t-online.de (Robert Graetke)
Subject: [JN] +++ Wanted: Schematic for Audio Innovations Amp "The First"
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1999 22:34:17 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n358
WANTED:
Schematic for the power amp Audio Innovations "The First" (Tubes 4x
octal 2A3)
Thanks in advance
Robert Graetke
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] +++ Wanted: Schematic for Audio Innovations Amp "The First"
Date: Wed, 15 Dec 1999 20:17:34 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n364
Robert
I can help, had one and worked with the Dutch distributor. Which version do
you have ? ECC88 or (the newer) ECC82 ?
regards
Guido
At 22:34 08/12/99 +0100, Robert Graetke wrote:
>WANTED:
>
>Schematic for the power amp Audio Innovations "The First" (Tubes 4x
>octal 2A3)
>
>Thanks in advance
>Robert Graetke
>
>
=========================================================================
From: James Melhuish <james@melhuish.org>
Subject: [JN] Wanted: Sound Practices Issues
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 09:13:08 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n878
I would like to buy any of the issues of SP. I don't currently have
*any* issues at all. Please reply off list. Thank you.
James
- --
James Melhuish
Single Driver Website http://melhuish.org/audio/
mailto:james@melhuish.org
=========================================================================
From: Tom Ronan <tronan@orion.it.luc.edu>
Subject: [JN] Wanted/Swapmeet: DS-025
Date: Sun, 07 Feb 1999 18:13:13 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n032
Hey all,
Anyone out there have a pair of DS025 transformers?
I have a pair of EXO-03 60 mA, 30H, 344 ohms DCR, brass channel frame plate
loading chokes to swap + cash or I'll just buy them outright.
Thanks,
Tom
- --------------------------------------------------
Tom Ronan 1045 W. Montana Chicago, IL 60614
Lowther America http://www.lowther-america.com
Oris 150 Horns http://orion.it.luc.edu/~tronan
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: triode with equivalent pin out
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 13:49:23 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n372
At 3:43 PM +0100 12/27/99, Christian Rintelen wrote:
>Joes,
>
>I have just received a nice transconductance tube tester with TONS of
>sockets. I want to test a couple of weird tubes that I can't find in the
>manual that came with the tester. Since there are many tubes listed in
>the manual, I figure that if I find a triode with equivalent pin-out to
>the one I want to test, I won't make to many (or to big) mistakes.
>
>OK. What other 9 pin triode has the following pin-out:
>
>cathode: 1, 3, 6, 9
>grid: 2, 8
>plate: 7
heater: 4, 5
If you go to the DuncanAmps tube database search, you can search for
tubes with similar pinouts...
- -------
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <rintelen@datacomm.ch>
Subject: [JN] Wanted: triode with equivalent pin out
Date: Mon, 27 Dec 1999 15:43:39 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n372
Joes,
I have just received a nice transconductance tube tester with TONS of
sockets. I want to test a couple of weird tubes that I can't find in the
manual that came with the tester. Since there are many tubes listed in
the manual, I figure that if I find a triode with equivalent pin-out to
the one I want to test, I won't make to many (or to big) mistakes.
OK. What other 9 pin triode has the following pin-out:
cathode: 1, 3, 6, 9
grid: 2, 8
plate: 7
heater: 4, 5
Thanks a lot in advance for your help!
Christian
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <rintelen@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: triode with equivalent pin out
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 10:28:16 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n373
Joes,
Thanks for the hint with Duncan's database. Too bad the weird tube I have at
hand is NOT listed in the database. So please tell me where do I find another
9 pin triode with the following pin-out:
cathode: 1, 3, 6, 9
grid: 2, 8
plate: 7
heater: 4, 5
Christian
danmarshall@att.net wrote:
> Hi Christian,
>
> Go to Duncan's tube database and look up the tube in
> which you are interested. Then select the option which
> displays other tubes using the same basing. It will give
> you a list of tubes.
>
> http://duncanamps.simplenet.com/tubedata/tubesearch.html
>
> Dan Marshall
> > Joes,
> >
> > I have just received a nice transconductance tube tester with TONS of
> > sockets. I want to test a couple of weird tubes that I can't find in the
> > manual that came with the tester. Since there are many tubes listed in
> > the manual, I figure that if I find a triode with equivalent pin-out to
> > the one I want to test, I won't make to many (or to big) mistakes.
> >
> > OK. What other 9 pin triode has the following pin-out:
> >
> > cathode: 1, 3, 6, 9
> > grid: 2, 8
> > plate: 7
> > heater: 4, 5
> >
> > Thanks a lot in advance for your help!
> >
> > Christian
=========================================================================
From: Andrej Deticek <andrej.deticek@siol.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: triode with equivalent pin out
Date: Tue, 28 Dec 1999 13:01:40 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n373
Hello Christian !
The pin-out that you give is the one of the high gm+mu Russian tubes,
type 6C15Pi and 6C45Pi (read in our script as type 6S15P and 6S45P).
You can check the data on the following pages:
http://www.tubes.ru/techinfo/HiFiAudio/6s15p1.html
http://www.tubes.ru/techinfo/HiFiAudio/6s45pe1.html
I know presently of no other 9-pin miniature tubes (Noval base) that
would have the same pin-out.
Happy Holidays to you and everyone on joelist!
Andrej Deticek
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
Christian Rintelen wrote:
>
> Joes,
>
> Thanks for the hint with Duncan's database. Too bad the weird tube I have at
> hand is NOT listed in the database. So please tell me where do I find another
> 9 pin triode with the following pin-out:
>
> cathode: 1, 3, 6, 9
> grid: 2, 8
> plate: 7
> heater: 4, 5
>
> Christian
>
=========================================================================
From: Kurt Steffensen <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: triode with equivalent pin out
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 00:59:01 +0300
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n375
Hi Christian.
How are you these days ?
I think the way you intend to fit unlisted tubes into you tester , is a doubtfull
idea.
You will be far better served , by actually getting to know the tester properly.
What tester is it ?
Observe how the connector knobs , has a multiposition selector to choose the pin
numbers for certain
electrode connections. (C,G,A and filament )
THen you only need to know the pin no´s of the valve you intend to test.
The bias and anode Voltage is usually set straight from the typical
characteristics that are found in the manuals.
That way you will have a better advantage of the tester.
I am familiar with AVO´s and a few Hickochs (Made for WE etc. )
I would be pleased to explain you how to use one of these.
But , please , note that a tube tester , does NOT reveal the whole picture of a
tube.
A tube tested as good might actually be bad , and the opposite.
BTW , in you reply to the Fotana label , I recieved your response to Ken , but
never recieved the post from him ?
Am I experiencing PRE Y2K problems here ? ;-)
It is acting weird these days. I also recieved some post twice , the other
day....
How is our KC amp doing ?
- - Happy new year , Christian.
It has been a pleasure discussing with you in the old year :-)
- - Kurt
=========================================================================
From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wanted: triode with equivalent pin out
Date: Wed, 29 Dec 1999 16:42:45 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n375
Hi all,
Much easier than actually trying to work all this out is to make a small
adapter. Use one Valve socket (Skirted) to hold the VAT (Valve About to be
Tested).
Take another Valve socket of the Ceramic Variety for PCB Mounting and
re-shape all pins so that can fit into a Valve Socket.
Mount these two sockest together in such a way that all pins are accessible
and that there are a few cm between the two sockets (use chemical metal
Epoxy to put the lower socket inplace as there is no other direct way of
mounting it).
Now solder some syitable solid core wire to the Upper Valve Socket Pins and
plug them into the lower Socket in such a way that the "repinned" Valve
resembles something that you actually can test.
These adapter are also cool for testing Valves with different pinning in
existing equipment BEFORE rewiring the whole bloody lot.
For a single valve to test (I know Christian wants probably to test quite a
few valves) just a socket with loose wires will also serve quite well, at
least with 9-pin Miniature triodes.
Later Thorsten
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: William Gardner <wg44929@mail.navix.net>
Subject: [JN] wanted UTC (dreaming again?)
Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2000 11:48:06 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n496
Sorry ...... forgot ......also , just a wild attempt , would like to buy
- --- a pair of UTC # C-2082 TFIA-03YY
Again , Thanks Bill Gardner
=========================================================================
From: Ed Faulkner <efaulkne@mail.wsu.edu>
Subject: [JN] wanted, UTC S-16
Date: Tue, 18 Jan 2000 16:31:39 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n408
I'm looking for a second S-16 for general workbench abuse, if any of you
have one of these please let me know.
_____________________________
Ed Faulkner \ through a child's eyes
CMT Supervisor \ sky is blue
Washington State University \ grass is green
Pullman, WA,99164 \ I want to see again
(509) 335-7566 \
efaulkne@wsu.edu \______________________
=========================================================================
From: "John Hancock" <John_Hancock@swissre.com>
Subject: [JN] wanted: Valley and Wallman
Date: Mon, 18 Oct 1999 17:00:47 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n305
Anybody got an extra? I've been looking for a while, but always seem to be
just a little too late.
Sorry for taking up bandwidth, John
=========================================================================
From: Rimmer de Vries <rdevries@ameritech.net>
Subject: [JN] Re: Wanted VT-51/841 characteristic curves
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 09:03:17 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n090
Hi all:
I am looking for tube characteristic curves for the VT-51 also know as
the 841? it seems to be similar to the 10Y tube.
if any one has curves, knows of a website of these curves, or know where
i can find the curves, please let me know :)
do the early eds. of the RCA Air cooled Transmitting tube manuals have
any curves for this tube?
Thanks in advance,
Rimmer
=========================================================================
From: "Henry Platt" <hnplatt@massed.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: Wanted VT-51/841 characteristic curves
Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1999 21:18:33 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n092
- ----------
>From: Rimmer de Vries <rdevries@ameritech.net>
>To: sound@deliverator.io.com
>Cc: Steve Berger <aprilsound@earthlink.net>
>Subject: [JN] Re: Wanted VT-51/841 characteristic curves
>Date: Wed, Mar 24, 1999, 9:03 AM
>
>I am looking for tube characteristic curves for the VT-51 also know as
>the 841? it seems to be similar to the 10Y tube.
Hi Rimmer.
Well, this is More of a class B tube I think. Too High Plate impedance and
too close the grid winding geometry to be like a 10Y. It has a mu of 30. A
good candidate for class A2 operation though. The one you want is the 842.
Much more like a 10. mu of 3. Good luck finding some.
Henry Platt
=========================================================================
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pierre-Fr=E9d=E9ric_Caillaud?= <pfcaillaud@cryptalis.com>
Subject: [JN] Want to buy Raven tweeters
Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 13:04:18 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n873
Yo,
Anybody here knows where to find a pair of Raven 2 ?
I live in Lyon, France. If anybody knows of a distributor in France /
Belgium / or at least not overseas, or if someone has a pair to sell me
used, please reply private.
Thanks very much !
Pierre Caillaud.
=========================================================================
From: blackie <tubesville@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] warble tone
Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 19:17:37 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n540
- --- "Sellek, Grant (TSA)"
<Grant.Sellek@transport.sa.gov.au> wrote:
> What is a warble tone and how is it useful in hi-fi?
>
> I saw a test CD with 'em, but don't know why.
used for speaker FR measurements in room...
less room interaction...
=====
blackie
blackie@tubesville.com
www.tubesville.com
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
From: "Sellek, Grant (TSA)" <Grant.Sellek@transport.sa.gov.au>
Subject: [JN] warble tone
Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 09:02:16 +0930
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n540
What is a warble tone and how is it useful in hi-fi?
I saw a test CD with 'em, but don't know why.
Grant Sellek, Adelaide, Australia
=========================================================================
From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Warm-up?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 04:22:42 PST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n002
Hi there,
>If I were to build a valve amp and use it again in
>our tv/video loop would it still take time for the
>amps to warm up with an improvement in sound quality?
Well, I found with all valve gear that I have made about 10-15 min
before it starts to sing.... Others have reported much longer times....
>Is it simply not feasible to leave valve amps on all
>day as generally the tubes die after a couple of thousand
>hours anyway?
Never mind that. The HEAT they throw off is a problem (specially with a
Class A Amp - and it's simply not worthwhile doing an AB job).
>How about the heat output from even a small 10 W amp?
Saves me using the Heating at the moment....
>With valves is it the same and if so is it possible to add in
>some kind of warm-up/soft-start option?
Sure.
For the record, my filaments use dropping resistors to get the right
Voltage and hence also limit the inrush current.
I switch on and off over the week but leave the system running from
Friday when I come home to sunday evening all day and night....
Kind regards Thorsten.
======================================
e-mail:
Thorsten@tnt-audio.com
Visit TNT-Audio on the Web - the only advertising
free audio web-zine.
http://www.tnt-audio.com
======================================
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: Matthew Allen <MDAllen@Madge.com>
Subject: Warm-up?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:50:27 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n002
Dear all,
On the subject of valve amps...
With my mosfets amp I would leave them on 24hrs
a day etc. as they were tied in to our stereo
TV/VIDEO. A definite improvment was noticed after
a couple of hours of warm up. Obviously we didnt bother switching them off
and on every day we just left them on all the time as the current drawn with
no signal was small so the electricity bill was not too big!
I wonder if you chaps could answer a couple of questions for me...
If I were to build a valve amp and use it again in
our tv/video loop would it still take time for the
amps to warm up with an improvement in sound quality?
Is it simply not feasible to leave valve amps on all
day as generally the tubes die after a couple of thousand hours anyway?
How about the heat output from even a small 10 W amp?
I know with solid state electronics it is quite often the switching on and
off that causes component wear. With valves is it the same and if so is it
possible to add in some kind of warm-up/soft-start option?
I know this is a lot to answer but I really would appreciate it!
Thanks,
Matt
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Warm-up?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:08:38 +0000 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n002
Matthew,
You simply cannot leave valve amps swichted on indefinitley because the
valves, particularly rectifiers and output valves, will need frequent
changing. Then there's the heat and the safety element to consider.
Yes, valve amps (and solid state amps) take time to fully warm up from
cold; the sound changes as a result. This happens each time you switch
on. Even the measured characteristics change during warm-ip. There is
also a "run-in" effect, which occurs once, as capacitors and other
components settle down.
Soft-starting is good, but valves are rugged and will take a lot of abuse!
Simon
m
Dr Simon Busbridge
School of Engineering
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327/642301
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk, scbusbridge@hotmail.com
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Matthew Allen wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> On the subject of valve amps...
> With my mosfets amp I would leave them on 24hrs
> a day etc. as they were tied in to our stereo
> TV/VIDEO. A definite improvment was noticed after
> a couple of hours of warm up. Obviously we didnt bother switching them off
> and on every day we just left them on all the time as the current drawn with
> no signal was small so the electricity bill was not too big!
> I wonder if you chaps could answer a couple of questions for me...
> If I were to build a valve amp and use it again in
> our tv/video loop would it still take time for the
> amps to warm up with an improvement in sound quality?
> Is it simply not feasible to leave valve amps on all
> day as generally the tubes die after a couple of thousand hours anyway?
> How about the heat output from even a small 10 W amp?
> I know with solid state electronics it is quite often the switching on and
> off that causes component wear. With valves is it the same and if so is it
> possible to add in some kind of warm-up/soft-start option?
> I know this is a lot to answer but I really would appreciate it!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Matt
>
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: JOENET Re: Warm-up?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:13:14 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n003
At 11:50 AM +0000 1/20/99, Matthew Allen wrote:
>Dear all,
>
>On the subject of valve amps...
>With my mosfets amp I would leave them on 24hrs
>a day etc. as they were tied in to our stereo
>TV/VIDEO. A definite improvment was noticed after
>a couple of hours of warm up. Obviously we didnt bother switching them off
>and on every day we just left them on all the time as the current drawn with
>no signal was small so the electricity bill was not too big!
>I wonder if you chaps could answer a couple of questions for me...
>If I were to build a valve amp and use it again in
>our tv/video loop would it still take time for the
>amps to warm up with an improvement in sound quality?
I wouldn't leave valve amps on all the time, if only to save wear and tear
on the tubes. But my experience is that valve amps warm up fairly quickly,
whereas ss components can take longer and sound their best. I leave CD
player, ss phono stage and other ss components on, and switch my tube amps
on an hour before I'm going to do any serious listening.
The long and short is, if you replaced your ss amp with a valve amp, I
think overall you would enjoy the improvement in sound, regardless of
warm-up times and such.
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: JOENET Re: Warm-up?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:36:30 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n003
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Simon Busbridge wrote:
> Yes - I seem to remember that's what radio amateurs' did. Put the
> transmitter into "standby" by switching the HT off but leaving the heaters
> on.
That's what I do if the 'off' period is no more than 24
hours.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: Rimmer de Vries <rdevries@ameritech.net>
Subject: Re: JOENET Re: Warm-up?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:36:52 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n003
Hi all:
didnt we have a recent discussion of warning of filament undervoltage?
wouldn't standby filament voltage running at 80% of normal be the same?
Rimmer
Paolo Del Giusto wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> My opinion regarding valve equipments warm up, is that a frequent switch
> on/off is quite insane especially for the filament. The solution could be
> turning off the HV, while leaving the filament on if the stand by is short,
> or reducing the filament voltage to 80% of the nominal value if it is in
> the order of one day. For longer shutdowns, is better to switch it off.
> That's what we do with klystron amplifiers, that are quite expensive, but I
> think the extra effort could be useful for "cheap" tubes too.
>
> Bye
>
> ------------------------------------------
> ------------Paolo Del Giusto--------------
> ------------------------------------------
> ------paolo.delgiusto@studioidea.it-------
> ------------------------------------------
> ----paolo.delgiusto@elettra.trieste.it----
> ------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: JOENET Re: Warm-up?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:18:46 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n003
Rimmer de Vries wrote:
>
> Hi all:
>
> didnt we have a recent discussion of warning of filament undervoltage?
> wouldn't standby filament voltage running at 80% of normal be the same?
> Rimmer
>
I think the concern was cathode stripping, which would only be an issue
if you had the HT applied while the filament voltage was low...
Peace
- --
Roscoe Primrose -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com --
http://www.aiko.com/roscoe
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
"640K ought to be enough for anybody" , Bill Gates, 1981
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: JOENET Re: Warm-up?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 16:49:11 +0000 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n003
Yes - I seem to remember that's what radio amateurs' did. Put the
transmitter into "standby" by switching the HT off but leaving the heaters
on.
Dr Simon Busbridge
School of Engineering
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327/642301
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk, scbusbridge@hotmail.com
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Paolo Del Giusto wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> My opinion regarding valve equipments warm up, is that a frequent switch
> on/off is quite insane especially for the filament. The solution could be
> turning off the HV, while leaving the filament on if the stand by is short,
> or reducing the filament voltage to 80% of the nominal value if it is in
> the order of one day. For longer shutdowns, is better to switch it off.
> That's what we do with klystron amplifiers, that are quite expensive, but I
> think the extra effort could be useful for "cheap" tubes too.
>
>
> Bye
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------
> ------------Paolo Del Giusto--------------
> ------------------------------------------
> ------paolo.delgiusto@studioidea.it-------
> ------------------------------------------
> ----paolo.delgiusto@elettra.trieste.it----
> ------------------------------------------
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Paolo Del Giusto <paolo.delgiusto@studioidea.it>
Subject: JOENET Re: Warm-up?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:27:54 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n003
Hi all,
My opinion regarding valve equipments warm up, is that a frequent switch
on/off is quite insane especially for the filament. The solution could be
turning off the HV, while leaving the filament on if the stand by is short,
or reducing the filament voltage to 80% of the nominal value if it is in
the order of one day. For longer shutdowns, is better to switch it off.
That's what we do with klystron amplifiers, that are quite expensive, but I
think the extra effort could be useful for "cheap" tubes too.
Bye
- ------------------------------------------
- ------------Paolo Del Giusto--------------
- ------------------------------------------
- ------paolo.delgiusto@studioidea.it-------
- ------------------------------------------
- ----paolo.delgiusto@elettra.trieste.it----
- ------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: JOENET Re: Warm-up?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:24:41 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n004
At 16:49 20-1-99 +0000, Simon Busbridge wrote:
>Yes - I seem to remember that's what radio amateurs' did. Put the
>transmitter into "standby" by switching the HT off but leaving the heaters
>on.
In that case switching the heaters to a lower AC voltage is the optimum !
Guido
>Dr Simon Busbridge
>School of Engineering
>University of Brighton
>Lewes Road
>Moulsecoomb
>Brighton BN2 4GJ
>UNITED KINGDOM
>
>Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
>Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327/642301
>e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk, scbusbridge@hotmail.com
>
>
>On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Paolo Del Giusto wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> My opinion regarding valve equipments warm up, is that a frequent switch
>> on/off is quite insane especially for the filament. The solution could be
>> turning off the HV, while leaving the filament on if the stand by is short,
>> or reducing the filament voltage to 80% of the nominal value if it is in
>> the order of one day. For longer shutdowns, is better to switch it off.
>> That's what we do with klystron amplifiers, that are quite expensive, but I
>> think the extra effort could be useful for "cheap" tubes too.
>>
>>
>> Bye
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------
>> ------------Paolo Del Giusto--------------
>> ------------------------------------------
>> ------paolo.delgiusto@studioidea.it-------
>> ------------------------------------------
>> ----paolo.delgiusto@elettra.trieste.it----
>> ------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Ross J Lahlum <rlahlum@juno.com>
Subject: [JN] Re: JOENET Re: Warm-up?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:07:25 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n005
Y'know, I've been thinking about a central power control for my system.
Right now I have to turn on 3 separate supplies, plus a filament/HT
switch on one of them.
I'm the only one in the household who can turn the durn thing on.
A one-switch solution with sequenced power-up is begging to be designed.
I hadn't thought much about leaving filaments on for a certain period,
but it makes sense.
Any opinions on what the optimum time should be?
I suppose it would depend on how frequently you use your system.
For me it's on a lot some days, but then it could be off for days ata
time, too.
Would a controlled warm-up be better, such that it didn't matter how
often you cycle filament power?
JoeRegards,
Ross
On Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:36:30 -0500 (EST) Kalman Rubinson
<kr4@is2.nyu.edu> writes:
>On Wed, 20 Jan 1999, Simon Busbridge wrote:
>
>> Yes - I seem to remember that's what radio amateurs' did. Put the
>> transmitter into "standby" by switching the HT off but leaving the
>heaters
>> on.
>
>That's what I do if the 'off' period is no more than 24
>hours.
>
>Kal
>
>
___________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com/getjuno.html
or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
=========================================================================
From: "David B. Klein" <dklein@microtec.net>
Subject: [JN] Re: Warm-up?
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 22:48:58
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n005
A 04:22 AM 1/20/99 PST, T. Loesch a écrit :
>Hi there,
>
>>If I were to build a valve amp and use it again in
>>our tv/video loop would it still take time for the
>>amps to warm up with an improvement in sound quality?
>
>Never mind that. The HEAT they throw off is a problem (specially with a
>Class A Amp - and it's simply not worthwhile doing an AB job).
>
That's fine during a Canadian winter. It's no more inefficient than any
other form of electric heat, and a damn sight more entertaining.
David
Quebec City
=========================================================================
From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: JOENET Re: Warm-up?
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 05:50:11 PST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n005
Hi all,
>Y'know, I've been thinking about a central power control for
>my system.
>Right now I have to turn on 3 separate supplies, plus a filament/HT
>switch on one of them.
>I'm the only one in the household who can turn the durn thing on.
A friend of mine has the same problem. His wife won't touch the
system....
>A one-switch solution with sequenced power-up is begging to be
>designed.
It is what I use in my system. Both Pre and Power use suitable
Sequencing / Delaying on turn-on, so my system has all power-switches on
the back and get's turned on from the Outlet powering the system (in the
UK outlets are generally switched)....
I will eventually put together all the parts I have piled up for my
Power conditioner and then this one will have the single mains-switch...
>Would a controlled warm-up be better, such that it didn't matter how
>often you cycle filament power?
I believe so. All the filaments in my poweramp will go onto current
regulation (which makes for a soft start) and a delayed HT....
In my Pre the Heater Voltage Regulators are set up in such a way that
there is almost 10 sec until they reach 90% of the nominal value....
The Turn-on of the +B is also delayed by chosing suiytable Capacitor
values in the Filtering of the reference Voltage for the Stabilisers and
comes on very slow (take sover 30sec to 90%)....
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: Paolo Del Giusto <paolo.delgiusto@studioidea.it>
Subject: [JN] Re: JOENET Re: Warm-up?
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:07:02 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n005
Hi guys,
At 12:36 PM 1/20/99 -0500, you wrote:
>Hi all:
>
>didnt we have a recent discussion of warning of filament undervoltage?
>wouldn't standby filament voltage running at 80% of normal be the same?
>Rimmer
You don't apply any anode voltage to the valve, so an undervoltage couldn't
make any damage to the valve. It is used because in the case of direct
heated filament where the cathode is made from some oxide depositated on
the filament surface, applying the nominal filament voltage to the valve
could lead to an evaporation of this oxide with consequent depositation on
grids, anode or other parts, reducing the maximum anode voltage you can use
befor discharge.
Hope I'm correct, I welcome any correction.
Bye
- ------------------------------------------
- ------------Paolo Del Giusto--------------
- ------------------------------------------
- ------paolo.delgiusto@studioidea.it-------
- ------------------------------------------
- ----paolo.delgiusto@elettra.trieste.it----
- ------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: Allen Wright <AllenVSE@compuserve.com>
Subject: [JN] Re: Warm-up?
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:50:59 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n006
Paolo wrote:
>>>My opinion regarding valve equipments warm up, is that a frequent switch
on/off is quite insane especially for the filament<<<
My Dad was a naval radio operator back in WW2 and he said the standard
procedure then was to install the gear, turn it on and leave it on come
hell or high water, untill it quit...which could be years later. In port,
at sea, whatever - it stayed on.
He said this had been proven to give the (all tube) gear the longest life -
and frequent on-off's dropped this alarmingly.
My preamp and the P-P EL34 amps I currently use are always on - unless we
go away for more than a weekend.
I have very few tube failures.
Allen (VSE)
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] Re: JOENET Re: Warm-up?
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:46:44 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n008
>>Hi all:
>>
>>didnt we have a recent discussion of warning of filament undervoltage?
>>wouldn't standby filament voltage running at 80% of normal be the same?
>>Rimmer
>
>You don't apply any anode voltage to the valve, so an undervoltage couldn't
>make any damage to the valve. It is used because in the case of direct
>heated filament where the cathode is made from some oxide depositated on
>the filament surface, applying the nominal filament voltage to the valve
>could lead to an evaporation of this oxide with consequent depositation on
>grids, anode or other parts, reducing the maximum anode voltage you can use
>befor discharge.
>
>Hope I'm correct, I welcome any correction.
Paolo is right. Heater voltage shall be repected as long as current is
drawn. Once the anode voltage is taken away, the heater voltage may be
reduced. AC is prefered then !
Guido
>Bye
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------
>------------Paolo Del Giusto--------------
>------------------------------------------
>------paolo.delgiusto@studioidea.it-------
>------------------------------------------
>----paolo.delgiusto@elettra.trieste.it----
>------------------------------------------
>
>
=========================================================================
From: analogtubeaudio@t-online.de (Robert Graetke)
Subject: [JN] Warning!! Alex Simons from Stone Audio is a not serious !!!
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 20:13:56 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n219
- --------------6AA5F5BF9DA6E52C9BB45C94
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi all,
last month I bought two SME 3009 tonarms from Alex Simons. He describe both
tonarms are in good condition and the tonarms are with all conveniences, only the
bias weights are lost.
Alex Simons send me the both tonarms, but the tonarms are in "trash-condition"
and nearly all accesories are lost. Both tonarms are useless in this condition
and the money is gone. Look out for this wanker !
Best regards
Robert Graetke
The hompage from Alex Simons " Stoneaudio ": http://ourworld.cs.com/StoneAudio
- --
- --------------6AA5F5BF9DA6E52C9BB45C94
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML>
<B>Hi all,</B>
<P><B>last month I bought two SME 3009 tonarms from Alex Simons. He describe
both tonarms are in good condition and the tonarms are with all conveniences,
only the bias weights are lost.</B>
<BR><B>Alex Simons send me the both tonarms, but the tonarms are in "trash-condition"
and nearly all accesories are lost. Both tonarms are useless in this condition
and the money is gone. Look out for this wanker !</B>
<P><B>Best regards</B>
<P><B>Robert Graetke</B>
<BR>
<P><B>The hompage from Alex Simons " Stoneaudio ": </B><A HREF="http://ourworld.cs.com/StoneAudio">h
ttp://ourworld.cs.com/StoneAudio</A>
<BR>
<BR>
<P>--
<BR> </HTML>
- --------------6AA5F5BF9DA6E52C9BB45C94--
=========================================================================
From: Allen Wright <AllenVSE@compuserve.com>
Subject: [JN] WARNING - Blantant but URGENT Commercial message...
Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 12:40:24 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n841
Men, Gentlemen and Anna,
If any of you penny pincing, dumpster diving, parts
recycling, surplus shop price sticker swoping hobbyists have any thoughts
of ever getting any of my shiny new, hi tech, german quality kits or
products - you have one week before most of the prices DOUBLE!
Yup, on April 1st, while many of you are hanging a jc's nyN blast, VSE's
price list takes a serious hike upwards. This is not an April 1st joke -
even though my bank balance has been since I started this gig.
Cable kit and (current) preamp price lists are on the site at
<http://www.vacuumstate.com>.
Orders received BEFORE midnight March 31st will be honoured at the old
prices - after that hard luck stories and pleading will not sway the judge
too much.
We are expecting to have on-line ordering on the site VERY soon - but if
you want something - don't wait for it - email me ASAP, pref NOT at this
address but at:
allen@vacuumstate.com
There's also a brand new 2001 Newsletter up there as well!
Allen (VSE)
=========================================================================
From: "Mayer, Thomas" <Thomas.Mayer@VLSI.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] Warning - digital question
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 03:56:37 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n152
Allen,
I don't know the technical details of this Sony CD
Player. But for sure there will be no easy way to
get a SPDIF or AES digital out. You would need some
additional circuitry to generate the digital output
from several internal signals.
Some later CD Players have SPDIF generation in one
of their internal chips even if they don't bring
it to a digital output. For example all 2nd
generation Philips Players which use the SAA7220
digital oversampling filter. There is a pin on that
filter IC which already carries the SPDIF signal.
Ciao ... Thomas
=========================================================================
From: Allen Wright <AllenVSE@compuserve.com>
Subject: [JN] Warning - digital question
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 03:57:42 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n152
Hi Gang,
I was given a busted SONY CDP-101 CD player and managed to fix it.
It sounds like %$#@ but the internal mechanics seem VERY strong and well
made and the tray slides in and out like a well oiled Bank Vault door.
Questions:
1/ Is it worth considering using it as a CD transport? If yes:
2/ It has no digital output - does anyone know exactly where I would need
to tap in some RG-187U to go out to my recently aquired professional 20bit
converters?
NB I have no manual for it and little chance of getting one so would need
pretty much paint by numbers instructions...
Any practical experience and advice welcomed.
Allen (VSE)
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: [JN] Warning - digital question
Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 09:09:31 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n152
On Wed, 26 May 1999, Allen Wright wrote:
> I was given a busted SONY CDP-101 CD player and managed to fix it.
> It sounds like %$#@ but the internal mechanics seem VERY strong and well
> made and the tray slides in and out like a well oiled Bank Vault door.
>
> Questions:
>
> 1/ Is it worth considering using it as a CD transport? If yes:
????
> 2/ It has no digital output - does anyone know exactly where I would need
> to tap in some RG-187U to go out to my recently aquired professional 20bit
> converters?
You need to open it up and find out what chips are used for
the decoder, oversampling filter and DAC. From that, one
can tell if S/PDIF is available. If yes, you need to add a
line driver/buffer to run the cable. If not, you need to
add an S/PDIF transmitter chip which is probably not worth
the effort.
> NB I have no manual for it and little chance of getting one so would need
> pretty much paint by numbers instructions...
I am sure you can buy a service manual from Sony.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: Allen Wright <AllenVSE@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Warning - digital question
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 08:59:43 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n153
Hi,
Thanks to everyone who answered this call for help. Seems that it's
going to be VERY much in the too hard basket for me to bother - unless
Scott comes up with some simple fix from the service manual.
Unless I run into a SONY collector I'll give it to Hanni for her work room
system...
Allen (VSE)
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: RE: [JN] Warning - digital question
Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 15:15:42 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n156
>Some later CD Players have SPDIF generation in one
>of their internal chips even if they don't bring
>it to a digital output. For example all 2nd
>generation Philips Players which use the SAA7220
>digital oversampling filter. There is a pin on that
>filter IC which already carries the SPDIF signal.
pretty clever done by those Philips engineers....
Guido
>Ciao ... Thomas
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: RE: [JN] Warning - digital question
Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 09:21:03 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n157
On Sat, 29 May 1999, evaguido wrote:
> >Some later CD Players have SPDIF generation in one
> >of their internal chips even if they don't bring
> >it to a digital output. For example all 2nd
> >generation Philips Players which use the SAA7220
> >digital oversampling filter. There is a pin on that
> >filter IC which already carries the SPDIF signal.
>
> pretty clever done by those Philips engineers....
??? Sony, NPC, and others do the same.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: RE: [JN] Warning - digital question
Date: Sat, 29 May 1999 16:23:30 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n157
At 09:21 29/05/99 -0400, Kalman Rubinson wrote:
>On Sat, 29 May 1999, evaguido wrote:
>
>> >Some later CD Players have SPDIF generation in one
>> >of their internal chips even if they don't bring
>> >it to a digital output. For example all 2nd
>> >generation Philips Players which use the SAA7220
>> >digital oversampling filter. There is a pin on that
>> >filter IC which already carries the SPDIF signal.
>>
>> pretty clever done by those Philips engineers....
>
>??? Sony, NPC, and others do the same.
Sure I use the NPC, I was just joking....
Guido
>Kal
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: [JN] WARNING - Digital Question
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 12:09:12 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n261
Folks,
Has anyone tried the new Burr-Brown PCM1704 DACs?
I was wondering about the feasibility of building a versatile DAC for
current CD, DAT and future 96 kHz formats.
TIA
Simon
Simon Busbridge, BSc(Hons) PhD CPhys MInstP
School of Engineering
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327/642301
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk, scbusbridge@hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: Dan Kerl <dlkerl@ro.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Warning - kak worm in Joelist postings
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:42:53 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n590
Conrad Drake wrote:
>
> I don't like hanging out other people's dirty washing, but
> everyone _please_ check that you haven't picked up this worm from
> today's Joelist posting.
>
> Sometimes getting the digest has it's advantages :-(
So does avoiding Microsoft Outlook. I seldom hear of these problems
from Netscape or Eudora users.
- --
Dan Kerl
dlkerl@ro.com
=========================================================================
From: Conrad Drake <conrad@directwest.iinet.net.au>
Subject: [JN] Warning - kak worm in Joelist postings
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 21:49:33 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n590
I don't like hanging out other people's dirty washing, but
everyone _please_ check that you haven't picked up this worm from
today's Joelist posting.
Sometimes getting the digest has it's advantages :-(
CD
>
> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:02:19 +1000
> From: "name-changed-to-protect the unfortunate" <2A3@one.net.au>
> Subject: [JN] Newbie question
>
> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>
> - ------=_NextPart_000_008D_01BFDD4D.EFF9A980
<snip>
> Write('\"file\"=3D\"C:\\\\\\\\WINDOWS\\\\\\\\kak.htm\"');
<snap>
=========================================================================
From: Kurt Steffensen <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 00:45:10 +0300
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n426
- --------------4ACD1D1B80686BD61BCC9CF4
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Phil , Darryl , all.
That one tube amplifier idea , has always appeal to me.
I do not believe the best amplifiers comes from this approach , at least not in
practice.
But one can learn a lot from these designs , and they do have some qualities ,
that no other amplifier designs seem to
produce.
The problem with this design at RIAA stages , is that it does not seem to be
possible to find a tube,Fet or bipolar that will insure adequate amplification.
And for the power stage , the price seems to be low power and/or limited
bandwidth.
However if one can do with about 1 Watt , plenty of tubes will do the job.
And in this case , it can be a dramatic good amplifier
At line levels , however , one tube,Fet or bp , will be able to do the job
perfect.
Another fun thing , now we are at this side of the fence.
Has any one thought of one tube to drive a 845 or 572-3 ?
It would need a amplification of 200 or similar. The 7768 could do the job ,
however , it can not be placed in the low distortion area , if such high Voltage
swing is needed.
Maybe a triode connected pen/tetrode would be able to lift this task...
I do not know.
I do not usually triode connect these. But Thorbjørn has opened my eyes tome some
of these tubes.
It is true , what our Norwegian troll claims about these , when they are the
screened ones.
( Ones with the screen outside the current path )
I tried this the other day , and boy these tubes are extremely linear.
My old trusty HP HD-measument set has decided to withdraw from duty , after more
than 30 years in the field.
(That's fair enough with me ;-)
And I am still waiting for my new Krohn Hite 6900A to arrive.
(Does anyone know this BTW ? )
So I haven't been able to actually put figures at the tubes yet.
But they passed all my "tricky" little test , I could imagine , in order to reveal
the linearity.
Now , this 1 2b amp , idea is good to have in the back head , when we design.
Simple circuits are always a major goal to hunt , when we are talking about audio
designs.
That has been proved to us again and again , in listening tests.
But I am one of these guys that happens to need more than one single Watt :-(
I also use low MC PU's , from time to time.
So in my world , the single device amp , is just not possible....
These days I am into the 572-3's.
Now , this need to be 3 stages , in my opinion.
And it is hard to find a proper driver , I think.
Many will drive it all right..But always at a certain price.
Either it will loose in bandwidth , or it is not just possible to place it in the
"sweet spot" , when set up to this task...
Any , suggestions ?
No , probably not...
I believe I will end up , with one of them fancy screened devices , in triode mode
:-)
Maybe D3a......;-)
Yup , thats a smashing tube.
I was not aware , it had a US equivalent 7721.
(Thanks , Phil ;-)
Or maybe , I will try a cascode circuit again. I haven't played with them for many
years.
But Steve B. , is making magic with these...So well.. Who knows....
Maybe I can as well ?
I am following this one tube discussion closely. These simple amps has a
particular soft spot in my heart.
I am not going to actually build these again , I believe.
But we can learn so much from these simple amplifiers , and they always sounds
very good indeed.
ECC 81 can put out about a half Watt. And it sounds WONDERFULLY..
EC 88 (I believe it was ) do as well. A little more power though.
One FET is also fascinating to listen to...
The two stages has a little more bandwidth and power...Yet looses a little of the
magic.
Three stages , high power SE , may have the same bandwidth , or a little more.
Again , they might loose a fraction , of the magic again...
But , in my ears , the good bandwidth and power , really compensates for that..
I do think that over all the 3 stage principle , is the best. At least with the
components available to us mortal ones.
1W/110dB speakers would allow us to cut a lot of crap out of them circuits...
And , maybe , Gentlemen , this day is near..
;-)
:-)
Blink - blink.
Weekend is over. Time for bed.
Nightie night Joes.
7 hours to wake up line :-(((
- - Kurt
- --------------4ACD1D1B80686BD61BCC9CF4
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
Phil , Darryl , all.
<p>That one tube amplifier idea , has always appeal to me.
<br>I do not believe the best amplifiers comes from this approach , at
least not in practice.
<p>But one can learn a lot from these designs , and they do have some qualities
, that no other amplifier designs seem to
<br>produce.
<br>The problem with this design at RIAA stages , is that it does not seem
to be possible to find a tube,Fet or bipolar that will insure adequate
amplification.
<br>And for the power stage , the price seems to be low power and/or limited
bandwidth.
<p>However if one can do with about 1 Watt , plenty of tubes will do the
job.
<br>And in this case , it can be a dramatic good amplifier
<p>At line levels , however , one tube,Fet or bp , will be able to do the
job perfect.
<p>Another fun thing , now we are at this side of the fence.
<br>Has any one thought of one tube to drive a 845 or 572-3 ?
<p>It would need a amplification of 200 or similar. The 7768 could do the
job , however , it can not be placed in the low distortion area , if such
high Voltage swing is needed.
<br>Maybe a triode connected pen/tetrode would be able to lift this task...
<br>I do not know.
<br>I do not usually triode connect these. But Thorbjørn has opened
my eyes tome some of these tubes.
<br>It is true , what our Norwegian troll claims about these , when
they are the screened ones.
<br>( Ones with the screen outside the current path )
<p>I tried this the other day , and boy these tubes are extremely linear.
<br>My old trusty HP HD-measument set has decided to withdraw from duty
, after more than 30 years in the field.
<br>(That's fair enough with me ;-)
<br>And I am still waiting for my new Krohn Hite 6900A to arrive.
<br>(Does anyone know this BTW ? )
<p>So I haven't been able to actually put figures at the tubes yet.
<br>But they passed all my "tricky" little test , I could imagine , in
order to reveal the linearity.
<p>Now , this 1 2b amp , idea is good to have in the back head , when we
design.
<br>Simple circuits are always a major goal to hunt , when we are talking
about audio designs.
<br>That has been proved to us again and again , in listening tests.
<p>But I am one of these guys that happens to need more than one single
Watt :-(
<br>I also use low MC PU's , from time to time.
<br>So in my world , the single device amp , is just not possible....
<p>These days I am into the 572-3's.
<br>Now , this need to be 3 stages , in my opinion.
<p>And it is hard to find a proper driver , I think.
<p>Many will drive it all right..But always at a certain price.
<br>Either it will loose in bandwidth , or it is not just possible to place
it in the "sweet spot" , when set up to this task...
<p>Any , suggestions ?
<br>No , probably not...
<p>I believe I will end up , with one of them fancy screened devices ,
in triode mode :-)
<p>Maybe D3a......;-)
<p>Yup , thats a smashing tube.
<br>I was not aware , it had a US equivalent 7721.
<br>(Thanks , Phil ;-)
<p>Or maybe , I will try a cascode circuit again. I haven't played with
them for many years.
<br>But Steve B. , is making magic with these...So well.. Who knows....
<br>Maybe I can as well ?
<p>I am following this one tube discussion closely. These simple amps has
a particular soft spot in my heart.
<br>I am not going to actually build these again , I believe.
<br>But we can learn so much from these simple amplifiers , and they always
sounds very good indeed.
<p>ECC 81 can put out about a half Watt. And it sounds WONDERFULLY..
<br>EC 88 (I believe it was ) do as well. A little more power though.
<br>One FET is also fascinating to listen to...
<p>The two stages has a little more bandwidth and power...Yet looses a
little of the magic.
<p>Three stages , high power SE , may have the same bandwidth , or a little
more.
<br>Again , they might loose a fraction , of the magic again...
<br>But , in my ears , the good bandwidth and power , really compensates
for that..
<p>I do think that over all the 3 stage principle , is the best. At least
with the components available to us mortal ones.
<br>1W/110dB speakers would allow us to cut a lot of crap out of them circuits...
<p>And , maybe , Gentlemen , this day is <i>near</i>..
<br>;-)
<br>:-)
<br>Blink - blink.
<p>Weekend is over. Time for bed.
<br>Nightie night Joes.
<p>7 hours to wake up line :-(((
<p>- Kurt</html>
- --------------4ACD1D1B80686BD61BCC9CF4--
=========================================================================
From: MHuber@t-online.de (Manfred Huber)
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 08:25:12 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n426
Kurt,
>Another fun thing , now we are at this side of the fence.
>Has any one thought of one tube to drive a 845 or 572-3 ?
I use a 1:4 line input transformer - EC8020 - 1:1 IT to drive the 572-3.
Only one channel is done up to now but it sounds promising.
If my IT had a bit more primary inductance I would try the 7788 in
triode mode.
Regards
Manfred
- ------------------
Manfred Huber
MHuber@t-online.de
- ------------------
=========================================================================
From: "Hugh R. Dean" <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 11:10:39 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n426
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01BF6BDB.CE574960
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Kurt,
Your thread on the 845/572-3 seems irresistible to me....
You mention the need for amplification, and this leads naturally to the =
pentode, of which there are plenty around of high power but sadly very =
few which will give a gain of 200.
I am impressed with the cascode. Why not tolerate one more tube, and =
form a cascode, with the upper tube a hefty pentode wired as a triode =
and the lower tube a couple of 6DJ8's in parallel? This gives the =
necessary high transconductance necessary for a cascode, and if the =
demand is only for voltage swing, then the high output impedance of the =
cascode (generally within ten percent of the upper plate resistor) is =
perhaps not a problem (unless we insist on A2 - but we wouldn't do that, =
would we???).
Something to consider....
Cheers,
Hugh R. Dean
Melbourne, Australia
- ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01BF6BDB.CE574960
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3401" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hi Kurt,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Your thread on the 845/572-3 seems =
irresistible to=20
me....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>You mention the need for amplification, =
and this=20
leads naturally to the pentode, of which there are plenty around of high =
power=20
but sadly very few which will give a gain of 200.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am impressed with the cascode. =
Why not=20
tolerate one more tube, and form a cascode, with the upper tube a hefty =
pentode=20
wired as a triode and the lower tube a couple of 6DJ8's in =
parallel? This=20
gives the necessary high transconductance necessary for a cascode, and =
if the=20
demand is only for voltage swing, then the high output impedance of the =
cascode=20
(generally within ten percent of the upper plate resistor) is perhaps =
not a=20
problem (unless we insist on A2 - but we wouldn't do that, would=20
we???).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Something to consider....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Cheers,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hugh R. Dean</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Melbourne, =
Australia</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0075_01BF6BDB.CE574960--
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 20:23:13 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n428
In a message dated 1/31/00 6:09:42 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
retrovox@bigpond.com writes:
> Anyone used the E280F? I got a box full of Siemens E280F
Hey David,
Not Yet :) AKA 7722
6.3V 315 mA fil
190V 40 mA 4W
26,000 Gm
10 please :)
Happy Ears!
Al
=========================================================================
From: David Barnett <davidbarnett@aristotle.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 23:30:50 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n428
On Tue, 1 Feb 2000 13:23:22 +1100, "Hugh R. Dean"
<aspen@alphalink.com.au> wrote:
>Incidentally, a friend is furiously building and testing tube phono stages.
>His verdict so far? The 1995 Andy Grove 6922 is probably the best of them.
Where can one find more details about this circuit?
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: Kurt Steffensen <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 00:14:42 +0300
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n428
"Hugh R. Dean" wrote:
> Hi Kurt, >Your thread on the 845/572-3 seems irresistible to me....
>
> Ha-ha..I knew I could trust your Aussies , Hugh :-)
> >You mention the need for amplification, and this leads naturally to
> the pentode, of which there are plenty around of high power but sadly
> >very few which will give a gain of 200.
>
> No , that is not a tube , we find in every corner shop :-(
> >I am impressed with the cascode. Why not tolerate one more tube,
> and form a cascode,
>
> Oh , don't worry. I do not consider a cascode/SRPP/CCanode load as two
> stages.
> In the past I never had succes in making the cascode circuit sing. But
> Steve Bench has talked me into trying it again.
> And now that also you "sweet talk it" , how can I defend not giving it
> a second chance ;-)
> I do not have the blessed skills as Steve , though , so I might end
> up as last :-(
> (Or I will look Steve over the shoulder ;-)
>
> >with the upper tube a hefty pentode wired as a triode and the lower
> tube a couple of 6DJ8's in parallel? This gives the necessary high
> >transconductance necessary for a cascode, and if the demand is only
> for voltage swing, then the high output impedance of the cascode
> >(generally within ten percent of the upper plate resistor) is perhaps
> not a problem
>
> Yes , you are right , Hugh. - I would , however try to avoid the
> parallel control tube. As far as I recall Steve is doing good with a
> 5687 ,
> or similar. He is even using a 6072 in cascode :-)
> So maybe the S needs not be that high after all ?
>
> >(unless we insist on A2 - but we wouldn't do that, would we???).
>
> Ughh , No !
> But in this particually case , I intend to try to squeeze every last
> drop out of that Russian triode.
> The datasheets says 40W , into grid current. !
> Cool... I need to try it out.. (Sorry to let you down , on this , Hugh
> ;-)
>
> ( I can hear myself trying to excuse myself out of this....)
> >Something to consider....
>
> Yes , it is. Thank you very much , Hugh.
> PS , We have not given up trying to persuade you to take the long trip
> to the triode festival.......
> We sure could use a few of the good Aussie stories at the Saturday
> evening fire....;-)
>
> - Kurt
=========================================================================
From: Kurt Steffensen <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 00:35:49 +0300
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n428
Manfred Huber wrote:
> I use a 1:4 line input transformer - EC8020 - 1:1 IT to drive the 572-3.
> Only one channel is done up to now but it sounds promising.
> If my IT had a bit more primary inductance I would try the 7788 in
> triode mode.
Thats an interesting approach , Manfred.
I like that method in transformer use.
I guess you support it with active bias ?
How much power do you expect at the exhaust ?
( Them EC 8020 aren't hanging on trees , up here...I probably have one or
two around someplace , I seems
to remember )
I haven't played much with the 7788 either (It is same as E180F ? )
But as Thorbjørn says , these "screened" penta's are GOOD :-)
( Thanks for the hint , Thorbjørn. Thor is an old Scandinavian Viking god ,
and bjørn means bear...
Good name I think. Fits him fine. - Lots of good ideas in that bear head )
BTW , Manfred in the good old days , it was expected that these gold pin
tubes were indeed used in gold sockets.
Otherwise a long term "oxidation" of some kind were supposed to develop.
I am sure Bill Perkins , know a lot more about that.
(Are you with us Bill ? )
( I have to drag you in to some discussion in return of that PSU history ;-)
- - Kurt
=========================================================================
From: MHuber@t-online.de (Manfred Huber)
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 08:54:23 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n428
Kurt,
>Thats an interesting approach , Manfred.
>I like that method in transformer use.
>I guess you support it with active bias ?
At the moment I use a 3.6V Lithium Battery for bias.
(connected from the secondary of the input transformer to ground)
>How much power do you expect at the exhaust ?
I measured about 15W in A1.
>I haven't played much with the 7788 either (It is same as E180F ? )
>But as Thorbjørn says , these "screened" penta's are GOOD :-)
It's the E810F. And, yes it makes a *very* good triode.
>BTW , Manfred in the good old days , it was expected that these gold pin
>tubes were indeed used in gold sockets.
>Otherwise a long term "oxidation" of some kind were supposed to develop.
Makes sense.
Regards
Manfred
- ------------------
Manfred Huber
MHuber@t-online.de
- ------------------
=========================================================================
From: Kurt Steffensen <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:43:52 +0300
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n428
David Crittle wrote:
> Kurt Steffensen <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk> wrote:
>
> >I haven't played much with the 7788 either (It is same as E180F ? )
>
> The equivalents are as follows:
> 7788 equivalent to E810F
> 6688 equivalent to E180F
>
Yes , you are right , David. And a pair of them is just in front of me at the
monitor.
Wearing both type numbers :-)
First things that goes blind , is ones eyes ;-)
> Anyone used the E280F? I got a box full of Siemens E280F, but no specs or
> application notes
It is equvivalent to 7722.
Please , let me know if you do not have any datas on this either , and I will
help you with these.
Thanks for your kind reply.
- - Kurt
>
>
> David
> retrovox@bigpond.com
>
> ____________________________
> David Crittle
> retrovox@bigpond.com
> ____________________________
> Visit the Retrovox Where?house at http://www.users.bigpond.com/retrovox
> ____________________________
> Some pics at
> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=149682
=========================================================================
From: Kurt Steffensen <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:54:16 +0300
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n428
"Hugh R. Dean" wrote:
Interesting comment. Once you select a stage current by setting the lower
> tube cathode resistor, you have only to vary the plate load and the voltage
> at the upper grid. See John Broskies www.tubecad.com site for the March 99
> issue on cascodes;
thanks. I will have a look.
> Incidentally, the 6DJ8 was specifically designed for cascode operation.
Yes , I believe it is due to the inside screen and the heater to filament
potential.
> > > Yes , you are right , Hugh. - I would , however try to avoid the
> > > parallel control tube.
>
> Why? It helps noise in this very sensitive position, and doubles
> transconductance!
Yep. Right again. But in my experience I am not too happy with the parallel
idea.
I think they sound best as singles.
> > > The datasheets says 40W , into grid current. !
> > > Cool... I need to try it out.. (Sorry to let you down , on this , Hugh
>
> No problem. If you want to run your Voshkod on nitro, go for it.....!
:-)
> > > PS , We have not given up trying to persuade you to take the long trip
> > > to the triode festival.......
> > > We sure could use a few of the good Aussie stories at the Saturday
> > > evening fire....;-)
>
> Just take a copy of 'Crocodile Dundee'. That will surely keep you
> entertained. But Dundee's behaviour is not exactly like the urban
> Australia, who is something between an Englishman and an American, with a
> tendency towards irony - saying one thing, but meaning the opposite.
Allright , I will put a chair beside the fire with a monitor showing a few of
these video tapes-
In that way , your continent is also represented.
> Thanks for the invitation, Kurt. However, as David Crittle says, it's
> 16,000 kms and that's a very long way on the faltering Australian dollar.
We don't ask you to swim up here. And as David says , you will have no problem
by staying up late ;-)
> Incidentally, a friend is furiously building and testing tube phono stages.
> His verdict so far? The 1995 Andy Grove 6922 is probably the best of them.
Hmm. Yes , I seem to remember something about this amp....?
>From where would that be ?
- - Kurt.
=========================================================================
From: David Crittle <retrovox@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 11:56:35 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n428
Kurt Steffensen <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk> wrote:
>I haven't played much with the 7788 either (It is same as E180F ? )
The equivalents are as follows:
7788 equivalent to E810F
6688 equivalent to E180F
Anyone used the E280F? I got a box full of Siemens E280F, but no specs or
application notes
David
retrovox@bigpond.com
____________________________
David Crittle
retrovox@bigpond.com
____________________________
Visit the Retrovox Where?house at http://www.users.bigpond.com/retrovox
____________________________
Some pics at
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=149682
=========================================================================
From: "Hugh R. Dean" <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 13:23:22 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n428
Hi Kurt,
You wrote:
> > Ha-ha..I knew I could trust your Aussies , Hugh :-)
Thanks mate. Always a pleasure...
> > Oh , don't worry. I do not consider a cascode/SRPP/CCanode load as two
> > stages.
> > In the past I never had succes in making the cascode circuit sing. But
> > Steve Bench has talked me into trying it again.
Interesting comment. Once you select a stage current by setting the lower
tube cathode resistor, you have only to vary the plate load and the voltage
at the upper grid. See John Broskies www.tubecad.com site for the March 99
issue on cascodes; he goes into the math and discusses a really interesting
tweak which improves the PSRR - a problem with cascodes.
Incidentally, the 6DJ8 was specifically designed for cascode operation.
> > Yes , you are right , Hugh. - I would , however try to avoid the
> > parallel control tube.
Why? It helps noise in this very sensitive position, and doubles
transconductance!
>> far as I recall Steve is doing good with a
> > 5687 ,
> > or similar. He is even using a 6072 in cascode :-)
> > So maybe the S needs not be that high after all ?
Yes it does, because a high S give us more voltage gain, which we really
need.
> > The datasheets says 40W , into grid current. !
> > Cool... I need to try it out.. (Sorry to let you down , on this , Hugh
No problem. If you want to run your Voshkod on nitro, go for it.....!
> > ( I can hear myself trying to excuse myself out of this....)
> > >Something to consider....
> > Yes , it is. Thank you very much , Hugh.
Ah, come on. Just a top of the head suggestion, Kurt. I have a couple of
811-3s which I might drive with a cascode, however.
> > PS , We have not given up trying to persuade you to take the long trip
> > to the triode festival.......
> > We sure could use a few of the good Aussie stories at the Saturday
> > evening fire....;-)
Just take a copy of 'Crocodile Dundee'. That will surely keep you
entertained. But Dundee's behaviour is not exactly like the urban
Australia, who is something between an Englishman and an American, with a
tendency towards irony - saying one thing, but meaning the opposite.
Thanks for the invitation, Kurt. However, as David Crittle says, it's
16,000 kms and that's a very long way on the faltering Australian dollar.
Incidentally, a friend is furiously building and testing tube phono stages.
His verdict so far? The 1995 Andy Grove 6922 is probably the best of them.
Cheers,
Hugh
=========================================================================
From: Kurt Steffensen <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 10:43:52 +0300
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n429
David Crittle wrote:
> Kurt Steffensen <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk> wrote:
>
> >I haven't played much with the 7788 either (It is same as E180F ? )
>
> The equivalents are as follows:
> 7788 equivalent to E810F
> 6688 equivalent to E180F
>
Yes , you are right , David. And a pair of them is just in front of me at the
monitor.
Wearing both type numbers :-)
First things that goes blind , is ones eyes ;-)
> Anyone used the E280F? I got a box full of Siemens E280F, but no specs or
> application notes
It is equvivalent to 7722.
Please , let me know if you do not have any datas on this either , and I will
help you with these.
Thanks for your kind reply.
- - Kurt
>
>
> David
> retrovox@bigpond.com
>
> ____________________________
> David Crittle
> retrovox@bigpond.com
> ____________________________
> Visit the Retrovox Where?house at http://www.users.bigpond.com/retrovox
> ____________________________
> Some pics at
> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=149682
=========================================================================
From: "=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Torbj=F8rn_Lien?=" <mdrivekl@online.no>
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 12:13:11 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n429
Hello Kurt, Hugh, all,
Couldn't help noticing this. (Oversleaping and late for
work I have some spare time before departure so..):
> >"Hugh R. Dean" wrote:
> Kurt wrote:
(somewhat snipped)
> Hi Kurt, >Your thread on the 845/572-3 seems irresistible to me....
> >
> > Ha-ha..I knew I could trust your Aussies , Hugh :-)
>>................Why not tolerate one more tube,and form a cascode,
> > In the past I never had succes in making the cascode circuit sing.
> > And now that also you "sweet talk it" , how can I defend not giving it
> > a second chance ;-)
...........
Kurt,
I know you probably got the goodies in your loft or garage or
whatever. Please then consider to try this super-duper voltage
amp.....
Its been some years since this, and I'm not sure if I remember all the
values right...but then you could easy figure out missing onfo...
I made this cascode for driving (though via a penth.cathodefollover,-)
an EL-509 in triode-screen-grid drive. In need for heaps of drive voltage.
(This was as suggestion for a friend that later built the amp and
reported great results. I haven't been able to evaluate/verify that yet
myself. )
As shown, output-R could be decreased along with doubling of the
current with smaller R's,-.
Anyway.
This cascode was to be equipped with "modern" (noval) tubes, so
for top-tube I used my favorite: The E80CC.
At Ia approx 5mA,
Rp: 47k, then around 100R in cathode i think (unbypassed.)
B+ was 560V, some 250V across triode only.
Grid set at approx+70Volts with voltage divider...
For bottom tube I used the E182CC. Voltage across tube approx
75V. Used adjustable decoupled kathoderesistor. Bottom tube
was set up to draw around 10-12mA in total, with a separate
feed-resistor from B+ (Could have been 68k..)
Anyway, this circuit was just tweaked in place with a scope,-
for maks undistorted voltage output and propriate
gain .And then delivered further to amp-builder for tryout, so
as said I haven't heard it,-yet. But I have had great results
with E80CC as voltage amp and E182CC as drivers on other
occations. So you might try it and be surpriced. (Or then
maybe not surpriced...These tubes are just sooo nice......)
:)
Torbjoern, Norway
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 12:34:20 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n429
Hi there,
>See John Broskies www.tubecad.com site for the March 99
>issue on cascodes; he goes into the math and discusses a really
>interesting tweak which improves the PSRR - a problem with cascodes.
BTW, this little trick also works great for Penthodes.... I use it.
> > > Yes , you are right , Hugh. - I would , however try to avoid the
> > > parallel control tube.
>
>Why? It helps noise in this very sensitive position, and doubles
>transconductance!
And terribly mucks up the sound while we are at it.... ;-) Paralle Valves
steal resolution at an alarming rate.
>The 1995 Andy Grove 6922 is probably the best of them.
Tried it. Adequate. Nothing to write home about, at least in my system.
Later Thorsten
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: tube@jump.net
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Tue, 01 Feb 2000 16:37:27 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n429
David,
I have a copy of the specs from a Mullard manual, but you should have
them, because I got this copy from you! It says it is a special
quality high slope pentode (whatever that is). Very nice looking
curves, rising to about 64 mA at 0 Vg with 150 V on the screen. It has
no curves for triode connection, but lists typical operating values of
150 V, -1.8 Vg, 24.5 mA, 33 mA/V (33 mmhos), and 1.8 Kohm Ra. This is
actually the tube I was thinking of when I listed the data for the
7721/D3a. Using the pentode curves, and trying to find a real world
operating point, I came up with 2 Kohm Ra, 35 mmhos, mu 70, which
would need 1.60 Vrms to get 1 W out. They are probably right about the
Ra being 1.8 K, which would indicate a mu of about 62 rather than 70.
Still would need just 1.7 Vrms to get 1 W out. Maybe they call it a
"high slope" pentode because the gm remains almost constant at 28
mmhos from 20 mA to 60 mA.
I have no curves or sound data for the 7721, but doing some SERIOUS
extrapolation with the little data I have (although this extrapolation
does predict the right answers for the 7722, so who knows), the 7721/
D3a has about 64 mA at 0 Vg with 150 V on the screen. In triode mode,
it should have an Ra of about 1.9 Kohm, gm of 44 mmhos, giving it a mu
of about 83, and needing 1.3 Vrms to get 1 Wout, although I suspect
that neither the 7721 or the 7722 could quite get out 1 W. Still, the
numbers are useful as a comparison with other tubes, if nothing else.
Phil
David Crittle wrote:
> [snip]
> Anyone used the E280F? I got a box full of Siemens E280F, but no specs or
> application notes
>
> David
> retrovox@bigpond.com
>
> ____________________________
> David Crittle
> retrovox@bigpond.com
> ____________________________
> Visit the Retrovox Where?house at http://www.users.bigpond.com/retrovox
> ____________________________
> Some pics at
> http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=149682
=========================================================================
From: "Hugh R. Dean" <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:26:47 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n429
Hi David,
> >Incidentally, a friend is furiously building and testing tube phono
stages.
> >His verdict so far? The 1995 Andy Grove 6922 is probably the best of
them.
>
> Where can one find more details about this circuit?
Go to http://www.xdrive.com/, username is joelist, password is noise, go to
schematics|phono circuits|phono circuits, scroll down to #22 which is
AGrove-6922-6922-6922phono.jpg, highlight, then select download for saving
to your HDD.
This is a very well regarded circuit, and it uses a series mosfet regulated
275V supply with DC filaments.
Cheers,
Hugh
=========================================================================
From: "Hugh R. Dean" <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2000 22:45:21 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n429
Hi Kurt,
there is another option if you wish to drive the bejesus out of the 572-3,
but it involves one further tube although it fixes the very poor PSRR of the
cascode. Tweaking would be necessary for good sonics.
This three series triode topology should be able to deliver a voltage gain
close to 200 with a Zout of sub-1K and the usual excellent cascode
bandwidth.
Wire up the cascode as normal using two 6DJ8 sections, then wire the top
tube of a mu stage right above the cascode, with 15% (around 50V) of the B+
dropped across the 'cascode' resistor load. The uppermost tube is biased
via 1M from the base of a small series resistor which connects its cathode;
the grid is driven capacitively from the top of the cascode. Of course, you
need lots of volts - around 500 or so minimum, but then you have a very low
Zout driving the grid through a cap, with the high gain of the cascode.
Should be rather different, I'd say...
Cheers,
Hugh
=========================================================================
From: "Darryl Lock" <dklock@ieee.org>
Subject: RE: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:38:59 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n429
>
> I have no curves or sound data for the 7721, but doing some SERIOUS
> extrapolation with the little data I have (although this extrapolation
> does predict the right answers for the 7722, so who knows), the 7721/
> D3a
I wonder if someone can educate me about why the D3a internal construction
looks so different to other pentodes I have looked at. What is the
advantage/disadvantage of two separate flat plate anodes (joined
internally)?
Darryl
=========================================================================
From: David Crittle <retrovox@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 11:11:26 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n429
>From: tube@jump.net
>David,
>
>I have a copy of the specs from a Mullard manual, but you should have
>them, because I got this copy from you! It says it is a special
>quality high slope pentode (whatever that is).
Well, if I sent a copy to you then they must be here someplace. My
warehouse is like a churning sea of cold war military surplus. When some
flotsam or jetsam bobs to the surface I grab it before it goes under again!
=========================================================================
From: David Crittle <retrovox@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] was 1 tube phono now 1 2b amp
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 16:31:15 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n429
>>>BTW , Manfred in the good old days , it was expected that these gold pin
>>>tubes were indeed used in gold sockets.
>>>Otherwise a long term "oxidation" of some kind were supposed to develop.
I have an old Siemens Pegelmesser with original tubes with gold pins. The
are not fitted in gold sockets.
____________________________
David Crittle
retrovox@bigpond.com
____________________________
Visit the Retrovox Where?house at http://www.users.bigpond.com/retrovox
____________________________
Some pics at
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumList?u=149682
=========================================================================
From: j45yip@netscape.net (Johari Yip)
Subject: [JN] Re: WAS 211 vs 845 vs 805 NOW operating point of 826
Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:40:07 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n923
rfrancis@glasscity.net wrote:
>
> 140ma, 1,250 ohms pri impedance? You mean a pair of UBT-1 OPTs would
> work in this application? This would be very interesting! Seems too
> good to be true... such a low impedance load?
according the original schematic, shishido is using the tango xe-60-2.5s with a 8 ohms load on the 1
6 ohms tap(1.25k ohms). the ubt-1 is what i had in mind also. after refreshing my memory, the vp is
250v with +40v at the grid running at 115ma.
- --
Johari Yip
===================
j45yip@netscape.net
===================
__________________________________________________________________
Get your own FREE, personal Netscape Webmail account today at http://webmail.netscape.com/
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: [JN] WAS 47 Labs SS Design -is it good? NOW Who wants big heat sinks?
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 00:05:56 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n205
I've got some parts that might be of use to someone building with
transistors. I pulled some BIG HURKING heat sinks off a junked ancient
computer, and got some others from who knows where. Also have a monster
PT that does something like 40 volts DC. Actually, that might be with
choke input. It's on a 1/2" aluminum plate along with two enormous
filter chokes designed for 10-20 amps. Anyway, I'd like to get rid of
some of this stuff. Also, if anyone remembers the Western Electric
magnetron I mentioned months ago... some guy bought it on e-bay, never
picked it up, says he doesn't want it now. Come take it off my hands.
Hey Scott, are you sure you hear a difference with that Toshiba IC?
Maybe it's just your imagination. ;>
- --Rick in Toledo
Scott Grammer wrote:
>
> I may be drawn and quartered for saying this in this forum......
> Toshiba makes an IC, the number of which escapes me now, and it can often be
> found powering the surround channels of Sony receivers. It is a five legged 50W
> opamp. Give it +/- 40VDC, about four resistors and a couple of caps and you get
> 50W into 8 ohms. It actually sounds decent. No tube sound, but not bad for an
> opamp with a thyroid condition.
>
> S.G.
>
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@sunnetusa.net>
Subject: [JN] Re: WAS 47 Labs SS Design -is it good? NOW Who wants big heat sinks?
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 06:21:49 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n205
Rick Francis wrote:(snip)Hey Scott, are you sure you hear a difference with that
Toshiba IC?
> Maybe it's just your imagination. ;>
>
> --Rick in Toledo
> (snip)
Touche', Rick.
Let's say it sounds less offensive than some of the mass market crap I have to
audition every day.
S.G.
P.S. Maybe it would sound better with a 300B in parallel? :-)
S.G.
- --
TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore! http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/
Smoke Free Youth! http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/smokefreeyouth.html
The Price of Privacy. http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/privacy.html
Any married man should forget his mistakes.
There's no use in two people remembering the same thing.
=========================================================================
From: Andrej Deticek <andrej.deticek@siol.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Was 83 data, now T.Duncan's TDSLPE
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 13:45:17 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n266
Owen Young wrote:
>
> Joes,
> Anyone know where to find 83 data sheets, online possibly?
Owen,
You may find it useful to dowload a search program for tube data,
available for free on the Thomas Duncan's web site:
http://www.duncanamps.simplenet.com/tdslpe/index.html
83 tube data are available on VT52 web pages:
http://www.vt52.addr.com/ftp/data/08-%20Rectifiers/83_sheet_1.jpg
http://www.vt52.addr.com/ftp/data/08-%20Rectifiers/83_sheet_2.jpg
Regards,
Andrej Deticek
=========================================================================
From: Andrej Deticek <andrej.deticek@siol.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Was 83 data, now T.Duncan's TDSLPE
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 14:35:23 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n266
It is Duncan Munro, *not* Thomas Duncan. Sorry for the error and
thanks for providing a very usefull search tube data program.
Andrej Deticek
>Andrej Deticek wrote:
>You may find it useful to dowload a search program for tube data,
>available for free on the Thomas Duncan's web site:
>http://www.duncanamps.simplenet.com/tdslpe/index.html
=========================================================================
From: Andrew Brandon <ajbrandon@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] was Aimless Rant - now el84
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2000 06:44:19 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n673
I have the circuits at home, one uses 12ax7, the other
a 6sj7. You could of course use a 6v6 instead of the
el84 with little change. Some people say the 6v6
sounds better. I will mail them to you off the list,
saves space.
Andrew
- --- jim charron <jimpcn@home.com> wrote:
> Hi Andrew;
>
> -What driver tube?
> What Schematic?
>
> Regards Jim Charron.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Andrew Brandon <ajbrandon@yahoo.com>
> To: <sound@lists.io.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2000 9:30 AM
> Subject: [JN] Aimless Rant - Dan Marshall
>
>
> > Sounds like I may be on the right track, I am
> > presently working on a pentode EL84 S.E amp with
> > feedback, ss bridge and all. Still looking for
> opt's
> > though.
> >
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Send instant messages & get email alerts with
> Yahoo! Messenger.
> > http://im.yahoo.com/
> >
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send instant messages & get email alerts with Yahoo! Messenger.
http://im.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
From: "jhlane" <jhlane@email.msn.com>
Subject: [JN] Was 'amplifiation in live opera' - now 'Evenhandedness'
Date: Sat, 28 Aug 1999 15:12:22 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n265
> We must
> persuade. We must always, in debate with smart folk, create
our own
> authority. We can't assert it, we can't borrow it, and we can't
insist on
> it. It must ooze from us like pheremones.
>
> Doug Purl, Pheremonically Deprived in the Rockies
...interestingly, that sort of defines Joes, doesn't it Doug?
And by extension, at least allows - if not actually endorsing -
all they hold dear, technically speaking. Sure, I borrow your
assertions out of their original context to make a point
unrelated to yours, but truths - if that is what these be -
transcend place and origin with their handy-dandy usefulness.
And are the essential requirement for the open-ended environment
you paint here, as well as others. Correctly so.
So. If we debate with "smart folk" and "ooze" authority,
_including_ that related to the electronic recreation of music as
judged by ears and other instruments, even as we should be
allowed and are practicing, we can expect fewer almost-charges of
not somehow having the goods, either philosophically,
intellectually, or musically in the expression of the instruments
we fashion. Because "assert[ing] it, borrow[ing] it, and
insist[ing] on it." has been precisely the routine of entirely
too many Objectivists. And thus must fail the test you present.
Right?
And to the rest of the list, my apologies for once again
knee-jerking the rather overdone Us v. Them rot. But thanks,
Doug.
Jon Lane
=========================================================================
From: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Re: [JN] Was 'amplifiation in live opera' - now 'Evenhandedness'
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 00:34:29 -0600 (MDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n265
On Sat, 28 Aug 1999, jhlane wrote:
> ...interestingly, that sort of defines Joes, doesn't it Doug?
> And by extension, at least allows - if not actually endorsing -
> all they hold dear, technically speaking. Sure, I borrow your
> assertions out of their original context to make a point
> unrelated to yours, but truths - if that is what these be -
> transcend place and origin with their handy-dandy usefulness.
> And are the essential requirement for the open-ended environment
> you paint here, as well as others. Correctly so.
I think you have not a syllogism, but a sorities. But your telescoping of
these ideas is both deft and impressive. However, it t'ain't what I'm
avid to debate, so I'm going to let it pass unless my manhood is at stake.
> So. If we debate with "smart folk" and "ooze" authority,
> _including_ that related to the electronic recreation of music as
> judged by ears and other instruments, even as we should be
> allowed and are practicing, we can expect fewer almost-charges of
> not somehow having the goods, either philosophically,
> intellectually, or musically in the expression of the instruments
> we fashion. Because "assert[ing] it, borrow[ing] it, and
> insist[ing] on it." has been precisely the routine of entirely
> too many Objectivists. And thus must fail the test you present.
>
> Right?
The last time my nose was broken it was left permanently bent to the left.
I was hoping the next time rather than squarely someone would catch me
from the right and do me a favor.
O.K. so I'm a big, slow-moving target. But I haven't been arguing the
subjective/objective thing here. I am impressed with aural skills and
technical knowledge here. It's no place for bluffers.
I've said this before and I will say it again. I am curious about what
skilled, intelligent listeners care to hear. I don't know that we are
converging on truth, but I do think we keep learning things. What
stimulated me today to a recurrent thought I have been having is the 10.2
business. I suspect that a 3-D aural field might change all the rules
overnight. If it were well implemented and found pleasing, I think the
format might obsolete a lot in a hurry. I believe we are as yet, if not
at a primitive stage, certainly at an immature one in our understanding of
entire psychoacoustic process.
I have long thought that we listen at too great a level at home because of
the imperfections of the reproductive system. I am proposing that it may
be that the answer lies not in perfecting the reproductive chain but in
fundamentally reshaping it. Of course I was thinking too of the nastiness
of having to field 12 tube amps for ordinary listening. Many Joes are
going to wind up building an amplifier shed outside. Real incentive to
get those efficient little opamps up to snuff in a hurry. And possibly
adopt a new way of spraying sound from a loudspeaker.
> And to the rest of the list, my apologies for once again
> knee-jerking the rather overdone Us v. Them rot. But thanks,
> Doug.
But I'm not them. And if I'm not us, it's because some insist on tying me
in the yard while you party.
Dog Purl
=========================================================================
From: Tim_Bailey@medibank.com.au
Subject: RE: [JN] Was An Idea to..... Joe! this is I/O relays and remote volume
Date: Tue, 8 Feb 2000 13:28:31 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n439
Hi
Norman Tracy wrote
"Now Norman says 'I want remote control'. Rather than just
saying 'no' or spending his valuable time explaining he has already done his
part Gordon replies to Norman: "OK, do it". Now its on me to design the
relay I/O boards and attenuator to replace Gordon's rotary switch and pot to
include the feature I want."
I have asked, I think Thorsten and Kurt, about this before. There are problems
with relays I think.
But I have lost/culled their kind posts.
One possible idea is, setting apparent sensitivities of 'my sources' relatively
level to a comfortable reference spl in room; choose a suitable, differing
value, precision resistor, for each input.
Then, for 'remotely controlled volume', over a limited range ( ref 0db to ?
dB); use a 'motor driven' pot or a rotary switch / or a relay switched array of
precison resistors.
Mute could also be done with relays, right at the pre's output. (Phone calls,
vistors at the door etc etc.)
But, are there any 'good' and 'safe' ones (switching bangs?), and how
expensive?
Also, what about the electromagnet's field and the audio signal? Can this be
resolved at all?
Tim B
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=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: [JN] WAS AudioNote Transformers NOW Audio Innovations "First" Amp FS
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 16:14:31 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n916
Perhaps this is as bad a time as any for me to mention that I will soon be
parting with an Audio Innovations "First" Amplifier with original super-duper
packing. This is the PP 2A3 stereo power amp, very stylish and pretty. I think
they retailed for over $3K; I would be delighted with half that. But if you are
at all interested, let's talk. Email me privately. I'll put it on ebay if no
interest here.
Mine is stock. I think Guido has some recommendation for a driver upgrade, and he
might be willing to share it.
FWIW, I have a Grommes "Custom" 6V6GT mono amp on ebay now:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1249653536
Also a big Thordarson plate transformer:
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1249836323
TFTB,
Rick
> >> I think Simon refers to the (in)famous Mr. Peter Qvortrup who more or less
> >is responsible for bringing
> >> the SE amps to Europe (Along with Hiraga and many others).
> >> He first started Audio Innovations in England and then went on to Audio
> >Note, making it a common known
> >> name i the high end business.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Jan
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: [JN] Re: WAS AudioNote Transformers NOW Audio Innovations "First" Amp FS
Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2001 23:06:39 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n916
Hi Rick,
AI first is a very fine, all time favourit. I sold mine and sometimes I
think I shouldn't have done that............
I changed:
- - first tube was paraphase inverter, modded that to single gain stage
- - second tube was driver, now also paraphase inverter
- - added a choke in the pre-amps power supply
Nowadays I could be tempted to go for more balance (are you there Allen ?)
best regards
- -
Guido
At 16:14 25-6-01 -0400, Rick Francis wrote:
>Perhaps this is as bad a time as any for me to mention that I will soon be
>parting with an Audio Innovations "First" Amplifier with original super-duper
>packing. This is the PP 2A3 stereo power amp, very stylish and pretty. I
think
>they retailed for over $3K; I would be delighted with half that. But if you
>are
>at all interested, let's talk. Email me privately. I'll put it on ebay if no
>interest here.
>
>Mine is stock. I think Guido has some recommendation for a driver upgrade,
>and he
>might be willing to share it.
>
>FWIW, I have a Grommes "Custom" 6V6GT mono amp on ebay now:
>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1249653536
>
>Also a big Thordarson plate transformer:
>http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1249836323
>
>TFTB,
>Rick
>
>
>> >> I think Simon refers to the (in)famous Mr. Peter Qvortrup who more or
less
>> >is responsible for bringing
>> >> the SE amps to Europe (Along with Hiraga and many others).
>> >> He first started Audio Innovations in England and then went on to Audio
>> >Note, making it a common known
>> >> name i the high end business.
>> >>
>> >> Regards,
>> >> Jan
=========================================================================
From: John Levreault <jlevro@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] was brass cd/preamps
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 10:30:05 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n219
"J. Gordon Rankin" wrote:
> Gang,
>
> My DAC-preamp is setup as follows:
>
> DAC->Filter->IT->Vol->Tube->Output Trans.
>
> 4.4VAC output max.
>
> Std without vol 2.2V max.
>
> FYI, sorry no more details than that.
>
> Gordon
>
> Still need help for the knobs!
Well it can't sound good if it doesn't look good!
JL
=========================================================================
From: "J. Gordon Rankin" <waudio@cinti.net>
Subject: [JN] was brass cd/preamps
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 99 10:03:46 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n219
Gang,
My DAC-preamp is setup as follows:
DAC->Filter->IT->Vol->Tube->Output Trans.
4.4VAC output max.
Std without vol 2.2V max.
FYI, sorry no more details than that.
Gordon
Still need help for the knobs!
=======> Wavelength Audio <=======
mailto:waudio@cinti.net
http://www.WavelengthAudio.com
ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
Subject: [JN] was cd player mods, now mute circuit mod
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 13:07:16 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n182
Timo Christ wrote:(snip)
> The muting transistors (only one per channel) shunt the signal to
> ground, does it still make sense to remove them ?(snip)
Timo:
I wrote earlier that it would be a bad thing to remove these transistors.
This is true if your chipset does not have digital muting, but if it does
it will be fine. Lift the collectors of the transistors, and listen at a
low volume. If you can start, stop, change tracks, and pause without
noise, leave them that way. If you get a lot of hash, try this:
The mute transistors are usually NPN, emitters grounded, collectors tied
to signal lines. There is usually a ~1k resistor in the signal path, with
the mute transistors connected to the output jack side of the resistors.
The bases go to whatever drives the mutes. Disconnect the collectors and
tie both of them to one coil lead of a nice dpdt relay. Tie the other
lead to +12V or whatever the relay takes, and put a 1N4001 backwards
across the coil. (Meaning connect the 1N4001 so that no current flows
through it when the relay is on. Its job is to absorb the back-emf
generated by the relay coil when the transistors turn off, thus
protecting the transistors.) Remove the series resistors from the signal
lines, and connect the lines from the last opamp to the N.C. contacts of
the relay. Connect the N.O. contacts to ground. The armature contacts go
to the output jacks. Now you have all the muting you could ever need, and
you have eliminated the transistor junctions from the signal path as well
as the resistors.
S.G.
- --
TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore! http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/
Smoke Free Youth! http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/smokefreeyouth.html
The Price of Privacy. http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/privacy.html
"The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from."
-- Andrew S. Tanenbaum, _Computer Networks_, 2nd ed, p.254
=========================================================================
From: "Joe" <doodle@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Was Chinese 2A3, now off topic.
Date: Wed, 20 Oct 1999 22:03:35 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n309
- ----- Original Message -----
From: RonSonic <rbales@ij.net>
To: <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 5:02 PM
Subject: Re: [JN] Chinese 2A3
>
>
> The last time I knowingly bought anything made in China, it was a pair of
> those 2A3's. One had a bubble in the glass! It still ran for years.
>
> If I had any hope that the money we spend on Chinese goods ever made it
past
> the brutal tyrannical thugs who run that shit hole, I'd buy their
cheap-ass
> crap.
>
> ROn
>
Hi ROn,
Well I was actually replying to a post from Ken, but hit the" to all button
"I guess. You are about to open a big can of worms re the China goods
topic. Start looking at lables in the stores...about 80% of the stuff in
the general marketplace is made in china. Why does it hit that ratio? If
the distributors,
(former) manufaturing companies can buy it cheaper from china than they can
make it and still mark up for a higher profit margin,,is china to be blamed
for supplying that need (should they be turning down orders?). Every month
we are deeper into the multinational economy, and looking at future changes
that almost bring the '60s Sci Fi films to life. (anyone remember the
political concept behind "RollerBall", and several others.
So I say we can't sit here playing Judge & Jury on a situation that our own
greed has created. If you are Replublican...just remember it was Nixon who
opened the doors to all this (while
he was creating inflation here at home!).
Sorry, I get carried away sometimes..Too old!
Regards,
Joe Pledger
=========================================================================
From: "RonSonic" <rbales@ij.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Was Chinese 2A3, now off topic.
Date: Thu, 21 Oct 1999 13:22:15 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n309
Well, they were murderous tyrannical bastards long before we did business
with them. They remain so, and despite the "engagement" discussed by the
whitehouse they will continue to be such in the future. I'll say this, they
knew which PR firm to hire. A real agency would have cost a hell of a lot
more than Clinton got.
I really do think that one can and should make moral choices about where his
money goes. And not giving it to those bastards makes sense. What I find
interesting is that, well you've noticed I'm a bit outspoken about this, the
people who agree with me about not buying Chinese have such wildly different
political views otherwise.
To me buying from China is to simply designate the Chinese peasantry as the
"Gammas" of our "Brave New World."
ROn
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Joe <doodle@teleport.com>
To: RonSonic <rbales@ij.net>; <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 21, 1999 1:03 AM
Subject: Re: [JN] Was Chinese 2A3, now off topic.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: RonSonic <rbales@ij.net>
> To: <sound@lists.io.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 5:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [JN] Chinese 2A3
>
>
> >
> >
> > The last time I knowingly bought anything made in China, it was a pair
of
> > those 2A3's. One had a bubble in the glass! It still ran for years.
> >
> > If I had any hope that the money we spend on Chinese goods ever made it
> past
> > the brutal tyrannical thugs who run that shit hole, I'd buy their
> cheap-ass
> > crap.
> >
> > ROn
> >
> Hi ROn,
>
> Well I was actually replying to a post from Ken, but hit the" to all
button
> "I guess. You are about to open a big can of worms re the China goods
> topic. Start looking at lables in the stores...about 80% of the stuff in
> the general marketplace is made in china. Why does it hit that ratio? If
> the distributors,
> (former) manufaturing companies can buy it cheaper from china than they
can
> make it and still mark up for a higher profit margin,,is china to be blame
d
> for supplying that need (should they be turning down orders?). Every
month
> we are deeper into the multinational economy, and looking at future
changes
> that almost bring the '60s Sci Fi films to life. (anyone remember the
> political concept behind "RollerBall", and several others.
> So I say we can't sit here playing Judge & Jury on a situation that our
own
> greed has created. If you are Replublican...just remember it was Nixon
who
> opened the doors to all this (while
> he was creating inflation here at home!).
>
> Sorry, I get carried away sometimes..Too old!
>
> Regards,
>
> Joe Pledger
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Nicholas McKinney <nick@lambdacoustics.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Was Chinese 2A3, now off topic.
Date: Fri, 22 Oct 1999 11:29:51 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n311
At 10:03 PM 10/20/99 -0700, Joe wrote:
>>snip<<
>Start looking at lables in the stores...about 80% of the stuff in
>the general marketplace is made in china. Why does it hit that ratio? If
>the distributors,
>(former) manufaturing companies can buy it cheaper from china than they can
>make it and still mark up for a higher profit margin,,is china to be blamed
>for supplying that need (should they be turning down orders?).
Hi Joe,
I used to work for one of the companies that supplied raw Asian speaker parts
to the American industry. The Asian governments are heavily subsidizing *alot*
of the exports, companies with loss figures of millions per year are more
common than you might think. Now what this does is to increase the market
share substantially for them at the moment. Then when they monopolize the
market, the prices can go back up to proper levels. I only know this
information for the speaker industry, I don't know about their other exports.
I have 1 part in my own drivers that I make that is made in Asia, this is
because the monopoly has already happened to this product. I pay about double
for the rest of the parts compared to most other American manufacturers.
However, I know that they are not being made in "sweatshops", well at least
overseas sweatshops where the regulations are lower. Lets not forget EPA type
issues as well, things can get really cheap when you can dump your waste
directly into the local river without pre-conditioning it.
I don't work for that Asian supplier anymore, and I don't miss a thing.
Anyway to get back to the original discussion about the Chinese 2A3, I have a
couple of those here and they are much better quality than the Sovtek 6B4G that
I also have. The Sovteks look like a gorilla assembled them, the Chinese at
least appear cleanly put together. The Sovteks cost more as well.
Best regards
Nick
Nicholas McKinney
Lambda Acoustics Inc.
www.lambdacoustics.com
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: [JN] WAS Cinema sound NOW listening to stuff that once sounded good
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:23:06 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n210
At 02:01 PM 7/22/99 -0700, sschenkel@juno.com wrote:
>My guess is that your ears have gotten used to better equipment and even
>the old VOT's in that setting would sound bad.
>
>Steve Schenkel
>
On a sorta related note... For a couple of months now I've been using a
rebuilt vintage stereo SE 6BQ5 amp in my main system. I recently recapped
and hexfredded a Dyna ST-35, added a small filter choke, generally spiffed
it up. (This was for a friend who bought this unit NEW, factory wired, back
in 1960 or so, and has been using it steadily since then!) I plugged it in
the system, and he came over and listened. He thought it sounded great, and
I guess it was nice and all after the caps broke in...
But after listening to SE 6BQ5s on the same system for so long, it just
sounded "hi-fi" to me, not as natural.
Am I spoiled for life now??? I think I might be selling a lot of PP amps
soon...
Rick
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: [JN] Was FB and Beyond
Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2000 16:16:34 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n490
Now it is up to your teflon mind to find out why your ears like tis....
again, there is not much wrong with feedback once properly applied. The
latter is easier said than done, though.....
After moving house I finally set up my experimenters room. It now contains
a complete monioring system with TEAC VRDS 10 player (modified), EL84 PP
amps (no feedback, only triode mode) and Audio Note K loudspeakers playing
Jimmy Smith and Wes Montgomery (Night train).
makes me happy now, since I am (again) recovering frm RSI (right arm)
Have fun guys and take care with the *^#@*) computers....
Guido (typing with one finger from the left hand)
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Was Filth, NOW stuff to sell
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 14:59:49 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n866
>
> Hundreds of people saw the same homosexual filth
> posted to the Single Driver Conference.
Hey, when did this conference take place? Seems like I'm missing *all* the
good stuff.
Speaking of filth, I've been sorting through hundreds and hundreds of tubes,
some of which are disgustingly dirty. The good news is that I have filled
little boxes and bags by type, and I can cheerfully report that I have TOO
MANY TUBES. I also need to recover the garage, which would mean finding homes
for 3 Ampex tape decks and the desireable octal tube preamps that accompany
them, along with their tube-rectified power supplies. If you can come to
Toledo, or if I can deliver them on my trip to Hershey and Pittsburgh PA, you
can get a good deal!
Also on the topic of filth, I'd like to mention that if your wife is out of
town, the dishwasher is a REALLY REALLY fast easy way to turn a lot of old
porcelain sockets into bits of beauty. The Johnson jumbo 4-pins look like NEW
again.
Rick
=========================================================================
From: Tim Reese <tgrmail@nmr.MGH.harvard.EDU>
Subject: Re: [JN] Was Filth, NOW stuff to sell
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:34:39 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n867
Rick mentioned
>Also on the topic of filth, I'd like to mention that if your wife is out of
>town, the dishwasher is a REALLY REALLY fast easy way to turn a lot of old
>porcelain sockets into bits of beauty. The Johnson jumbo 4-pins look like NEW
>again.
I've used the dishwasher too - being a bachelor, I can put anything I want in
my scrubber. Beware though - it really scrubs - it'll remove just about
anything that isn't fused into the object's surface, in particular any kind of
painted legend or paper label.
hth tr
=========================================================================
From: "P de R. Leclercq" <triode@freenetname.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [JN] Was Filth, NOW stuff to sell
Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:40:30 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n867
A VERY nice message Rick; well done.
Paul de R. Leclercq
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
Behalf Of Rick Francis
Sent: 13 April 2001 12:00
To: sound@io.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Was Filth, NOW stuff to sell
>
> Hundreds of people saw the same homosexual filth
> posted to the Single Driver Conference.
Hey, when did this conference take place? Seems like I'm missing *all* the
good stuff.
Speaking of filth, I've been sorting through hundreds and hundreds of tubes,
some of which are disgustingly dirty. The good news is that I have filled
little boxes and bags by type, and I can cheerfully report that I have TOO
MANY TUBES. I also need to recover the garage, which would mean finding
homes
for 3 Ampex tape decks and the desireable octal tube preamps that accompany
them, along with their tube-rectified power supplies. If you can come to
Toledo, or if I can deliver them on my trip to Hershey and Pittsburgh PA,
you
can get a good deal!
Also on the topic of filth, I'd like to mention that if your wife is out of
town, the dishwasher is a REALLY REALLY fast easy way to turn a lot of old
porcelain sockets into bits of beauty. The Johnson jumbo 4-pins look like
NEW
again.
Rick
=========================================================================
From: "Kurt Steffensen" <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: Sv: [JN] Was Filth, NOW stuff to sell
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 12:17:26 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n867
> >Also on the topic of filth, I'd like to mention that if your wife is out of
> >town, the dishwasher is a REALLY REALLY fast easy way to turn a lot of old
> >porcelain sockets into bits of beauty. The Johnson jumbo 4-pins look like
> NEW
> >again.
>
> If your wife just won't go away, try soaking them in cheapo white vinegar
> overnight.
Tried it twice.. Was'nt easy...
Did not help a bit in my case..
She is still here..
Kurt
> Sandy
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Vernon Brown" <vhbrown@mediaone.net>
Subject: RE: [JN] Was Filth, NOW stuff to sell
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 13:08:50 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n867
>Also on the topic of filth, I'd like to mention that if your wife is out of
>town, the dishwasher is a REALLY REALLY fast easy way to turn a lot of old
>porcelain sockets into bits of beauty. The Johnson jumbo 4-pins look like
NEW
>again.
If your wife just won't go away, try soaking them in cheapo white vinegar
overnight.
Sandy
=========================================================================
From: "gtrmkr" <gtrmkr@wans.net>
Subject: [JN] Was: Floating filament supplies, now 5687 linestage
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 01:07:37 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n475
Joes,
Thanks to all who offered help and suggestions regarding how to best float
filaments.
In the end, I opted to try a simple 5687 stage instead of one with a CSS.
Glad I did! Hard to imagine that would have sounded any better than what I
would up with.
I jammed this into an old PAS 2 chassis, still using the 12X4 rectifier and
fit a choke (hanging off the back!). Really cheap parts at the moment, yet
still sounds very, very nice. Running it with about 100v on the plates, @
~10ma. I haven't played with other points yet--been enjoying the music too
much.
I've got some low-level 120hz hum I haven't chased out yet. I also
occasionally get some noise...would 5687s benefit from grid stoppers?
Thanks again,
Jim
=========================================================================
From: "Thomas Sylvester" <TRS@carlsmith.com>
Subject: [JN] WAS High voltage electrolytic capacitors - NOW attenuators
Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:02:01 -1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n845
Philips "ELKO" electrolytics up to 385 volts are available in Germany for reasonable prices:
http://www.thel.de/bauteile/elkos/elkos.htm
This site, Thel Audio, also has some very interesting motorizes stepped attenuators, as well as the
Panasonic pots that HiFi World thought were so great, also at much better prices than in the US:
http://www.thel.de/bauteile/regler/regler.htm
Can any German Joes tell me About Thel Audio and/or where to order back issues of Klang & Ton and Be
rnd Timmerman's Hobby HiFi? TIA
Regards, Tom Sylvester
>>> evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl> 03/23/01 09:32AM >>>
Jan is at OTL again......
Farnell is rather expensive, the stock a lot and ship fast: Ideal for
prototyping !
Can't you get Philips or alike ?
Guido
At 00:29 23-3-01 +0100, Jan Hass wrote:
>Hi there
>
>I could need a tip on where to buy resonably priced electrolytic capacitors.
>I need 1500 - 2000 uf/ 200volt types. Think Farnell is way to expensive.
>
>Greatings
>
>Jan Hass
>
=========================================================================
From: "Gales, Frank" <frank.gales@sap.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] WAS High voltage electrolytic capacitors - NOW attenuato rs
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:06:16 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n845
Hi Thomas,
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Sylvester [mailto:TRS@carlsmith.com]
> Philips "ELKO" electrolytics up to 385 volts are available
> in Germany for reasonable prices:
> http://www.thel.de/bauteile/elkos/elkos.htm
>
> This site, Thel Audio, also has some very interesting
> motorizes stepped attenuators, as well as the Panasonic pots
> that HiFi World thought were so great, also at much better
> prices than in the US:
> http://www.thel.de/bauteile/regler/regler.htm
>
> Can any German Joes tell me About Thel Audio
They are mostly in the opamp and solid state power amp business.
I bought some parts from them some years ago with no complications.
> and/or where to
> order back issues of Klang & Ton and Bernd Timmerman's Hobby
> HiFi?
>
I found nothing for Klang & Ton on the net.
But I do have a recent copy. Maybe I could look for the
adress.
For hobby hifi:
http://www.hobbyhifi.de/Heft-Nachorder/heft-nachorder.html
BTW, where do you come from?
Greetings,
Frank Gales
Speyer / Germany
=========================================================================
From: "Jan Hass" <jh@hifi-analyse.dk>
Subject: [JN] SV: WAS High voltage electrolytic capacitors - NOW attenuators
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:08:16 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n845
Hi Thomas S
Thanks for the links - but I can?t open them. Could you please check if they
are OK ?
TIA
Jan Hass
- -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Thomas Sylvester [mailto:TRS@carlsmith.com]
Sendt: 27. marts 2001 02:02
Til: jh@hifi-analyse.dk; EvaGuido@iaehv.nl; sound@lists.io.com
Emne: WAS High voltage electrolytic capacitors - NOW attenuators
Philips "ELKO" electrolytics up to 385 volts are available in Germany for
reasonable prices:
http://www.thel.de/bauteile/elkos/elkos.htm
This site, Thel Audio, also has some very interesting motorizes stepped
attenuators, as well as the Panasonic pots that HiFi World thought were so
great, also at much better prices than in the US:
http://www.thel.de/bauteile/regler/regler.htm
Can any German Joes tell me About Thel Audio and/or where to order back
issues of Klang & Ton and Bernd Timmerman's Hobby HiFi? TIA
Regards, Tom Sylvester
>>> evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl> 03/23/01 09:32AM >>>
Jan is at OTL again......
Farnell is rather expensive, the stock a lot and ship fast: Ideal for
prototyping !
Can't you get Philips or alike ?
Guido
At 00:29 23-3-01 +0100, Jan Hass wrote:
>Hi there
>
>I could need a tip on where to buy resonably priced electrolytic
capacitors.
>I need 1500 - 2000 uf/ 200volt types. Think Farnell is way to expensive.
>
>Greatings
>
>Jan Hass
>
=========================================================================
From: "Thomas Sylvester" <TRS@carlsmith.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] SV: WAS High voltage electrolytic capacitors - NOW attenuators
Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:44:07 -1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n846
Hi Jan-
The homepage for Thel Audio is http://www.thel.de/
but right now it won't work for me either, so their server must be down; try later BTW, there are lo
ts of other interesting things on this very extensive and well-designed site, but they're mostly ss.
They have motor start caps, tube sockets and lots of esoteric DACs, filters and the like.
Regards, Tom Sylvester
>>> "Jan Hass" <jh@hifi-analyse.dk> 03/27/01 09:08AM >>>
Hi Thomas S
Thanks for the links - but I can?t open them. Could you please check if they
are OK ?
TIA
Jan Hass
- -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Thomas Sylvester [mailto:TRS@carlsmith.com]
Sendt: 27. marts 2001 02:02
Til: jh@hifi-analyse.dk; EvaGuido@iaehv.nl; sound@lists.io.com
Emne: WAS High voltage electrolytic capacitors - NOW attenuators
Philips "ELKO" electrolytics up to 385 volts are available in Germany for
reasonable prices:
http://www.thel.de/bauteile/elkos/elkos.htm
This site, Thel Audio, also has some very interesting motorizes stepped
attenuators, as well as the Panasonic pots that HiFi World thought were so
great, also at much better prices than in the US:
http://www.thel.de/bauteile/regler/regler.htm
Can any German Joes tell me About Thel Audio and/or where to order back
issues of Klang & Ton and Bernd Timmerman's Hobby HiFi? TIA
Regards, Tom Sylvester
>>> evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl> 03/23/01 09:32AM >>>
Jan is at OTL again......
Farnell is rather expensive, the stock a lot and ship fast: Ideal for
prototyping !
Can't you get Philips or alike ?
Guido
At 00:29 23-3-01 +0100, Jan Hass wrote:
>Hi there
>
>I could need a tip on where to buy resonably priced electrolytic
capacitors.
>I need 1500 - 2000 uf/ 200volt types. Think Farnell is way to expensive.
>
>Greatings
>
>Jan Hass
>
=========================================================================
From: Michael and Bonnie Thomas <thomas@cybertours.com>
Subject: [JN] Washington, DC record shops?
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 23:28:22 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n182
Hi folks,
I am going to DC this coming week for some training.
Was wondering if there was any advice on used record shops or the such.
Not familiar with the area so any details would be apreciated.
Any live jazz entertainments spots?
Thanks for the bandwidth.
Mike
=========================================================================
From: Roscoe Primrose <roscoe@aiko.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Washington, DC record shops?
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 00:01:55 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n182
Michael and Bonnie Thomas wrote:
>
> Hi folks,
> I am going to DC this coming week for some training.
> Was wondering if there was any advice on used record shops or the such.
> Not familiar with the area so any details would be apreciated.
>
> Any live jazz entertainments spots?
>
> Thanks for the bandwidth.
>
> Mike
Can't help with the record shops, but try
http://wp-210.washingtonpost.com/yp/bluesalley/3.html for live Jazz.
You gonna be around over the weekend of the 26th?
Peace
- --
Roscoe Primrose
- -- mailto:roscoe@aiko.com -- http://www.aiko.com/roscoe --
"Once in a while you get shown the light
In the strangest of places if you look at it right." Robert Hunter
=========================================================================
From: "Steve Berger" <aprilsound@earthlink.net>
Subject: [JN] Washington Joes
Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 13:30:20 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n960
Hi Folks:
I'll be working with the great Bob Dorough, at "Blues Alley" on Wisconson
and "M" in georgetown, on Wed. the fifth of sept. Shows are at 8 and 10.
if anyone is around ,come and say hi.
Steve
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Washington Joes
Date: Sat, 08 Sep 2001 16:23:43 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n961
Steve Berger wrote:
>
> Hi Folks:
> I'll be working with the great Bob Dorough, at "Blues Alley" on Wisconson
> and "M" in georgetown, on Wed. the fifth of sept. Shows are at 8 and 10.
> if anyone is around ,come and say hi.
> Steve
NUTS!!! I was away and missed it, hope somebody else went. Thanks
anyway for the heads-up, Steve.
- --
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
Visit my web site at http://home.att.net/~groverg/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
From: "Steve Berger" <aprilsound@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Washington Joes
Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 22:38:50 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n961
Hi Grover:
I didnt see any Joes , at least nobody piped up.
The good news is that we{Bob} did very well, so we might be there for a
weekend in the future.
Thanx,
Steve
- -----Original Message----->NUTS!!! I was away and missed it, hope somebody
else went. Thanks
>anyway for the heads-up, Steve.
>--
>Grover Gardner
>groverg@postoffice.att.net
>Visit my web site at http://home.att.net/~groverg/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
From: ROBERT PETERSON <robertpeterson56@yahoo.com>
Subject: [JN] washing tubes
Date: Sun, 20 May 2001 11:14:49 -0700 (PDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n887
I realize this has probably come up before but what is
the preferred method for washing crusty old tubes?
Robert
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
http://auctions.yahoo.com/
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust. Service" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Washing Tubes
Date: Tue, 22 May 2001 20:06:56 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n890
Hi:
> I realize this has probably come up before but what is
> the preferred method for washing crusty old tubes?
> Robert
The dishwasher and be careful if you decide to hand scrub that you don't
bends the pins on 7, 9, 10 & 12 pin types.
Oh . . and do the whites separately :>)
Bill Perkins - PEARL, Inc.
=========================================================================
From: Thomas Dunker <dunker@invalid.ed.ntnu.no>
Subject: Re: Was [JN] Cheap 96 kHz/24 Bit DAC Kit
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 02:33:47 +0200 (CEST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n218
On Tue, 3 Aug 1999, Hugh R. Dean wrote:
> Thomas Dunker very reasonably wrote:
>
> > We're dealing with simple electronics here, not voodoo magic. Has it never
> > ocurred to you that your preferred circuits might in fact add distortion
> > that the CF doesn't?
> > It's no secret that we often tend to prefer a signal with a slight amount
> > of "pleasing" harmonic distortion as compared to a completely "dry" one.
>
> Absolutely. Preferences in audio (do we mean tube audio?) seem inevitably
> to come back to subjective choices in spectral distortion.
I thought about this some more and came up with an interesting theory:
When we use the term "transparency", I guess we'd say that a transparent
component/stage/circuit/whatever is one that appears to let all the
information through without removing anything. In comparing two different
components/stages/circuits/whatever we turn this into a relative merit,
so that we perceive a difference in "transparency" by determining which
alternative appears to let the most information through....
Now...if one of the test subjects has more distortion (by this I mean
harmonic/IM etc. ie. what's otherwise been called "extraneous
frequencies") than the other, it ADDS INFORMATION, PERIOD. And will of
course quite possibly be judged to "let more information through" because
we're comparing it to something that has less distortion and therefore ADDS
LESS INFORMATION. We're unable to assess these things subjectively except
by comparison, and whichever alternative that sounds richer and appears
to bring the most information across will most probably win, also when
the extra information is in fact distortion added to the applied signal.
May well be that the signal with more distortion sounds "better" and
we'll choose what sounds better without asking why.
BUT YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN THIS CHOICE BY REINVENTING THE TRUTH. Why does
it sound better?? That's what we need to discuss, without instinctively
assuming that the "better sounding" - in this case, tube stage - sounds
better because the distortion is lower. In fact the opposite may be true.
It's not particularly difficult to measure distortion. With reliable
plate curves, we can even make crude estimates of distortion on paper
before we have the actual circuit built.
This is all so basic that I can't believe we're returning to this
discussion over and over again, debating proven facts as if they were
theological questions.
So let's try to separate opinions from facts, that's the least we can
do.
And I'd still like to see someone explaining how a CF should be able to
mysteriously remove audible signal components that have no problem
getting through a plate loaded stage. If something is less
transparent, I take it to mean that something fails to get through,
literally like a dirty window. I refuse to believe that this is the case
with sensibly designed CFs and my theory above seems far more plausible.
It would even explain why so many preamps have unnecessary gain stages.
"It sounds better". According to my theory, a voltage gain stage might
very well "sound better" than straight wire. Musicians like tube amps
because they "sound better". Recording engineers use Aphex aural exciters
and tube compressors because they "sound better". These are all esthetic
decisions made on a purely subjective basis. I don't blame anyone.
But now we enter matters of audio design philosophy. I don't know how
many times all these ignorant smartasses tell me "ah, I see, you
like the *tube sound*!" I know that some do, but I'm not looking for some
identifiable sound or "tone" from my amps or speakers, I just want them
to disappear and not attract attention to the sound itself. (Still got
a long way to go...) In the end that lets you hear the music and forget
about the sound. During my vacation this summerI heard a system that
amazed me in this regard, at Christian Rintelen's in Zurich.
No spectacular "horn sound" or "triode sound" or
"vinyl sound" or "digital sound", or... just music! It must sound funny,
but that's the impression I was left with. It impressed me in the way it
didn't try to *sound* impressive. Made me hum and tap my feet to the music
instead. He's got transistors and a digital crossover alongside 300B's and
TADs. And it *plays music* unlike anything I've heard before, whether off
LP's, CD's or radio. Hats off!
Awful late here in Norway now, logout time.
Tom
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
_/\_ Thomas Dunker \ The Horn Speaker Home Page:
/ \ P.O.Box 2811 \ http://invalid.ed.ntnu.no/~dunker/horns.html
| | 7002 Trondheim \
| | NORWAY \--\ "Those with head above water
\____/ dunker@omegav.ntnu.no \ see only the tip of the iceberg"
|||| phone: (+47)73911068 \ (Gene Dalby)
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
=========================================================================
From: "Hugh R. Dean" <aspen@alphalink.com.au>
Subject: Was [JN] Cheap 96 kHz/24 Bit DAC Kit
Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 08:16:27 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n218
Thomas Dunker very reasonably wrote:
> We're dealing with simple electronics here, not voodoo magic. Has it never
> ocurred to you that your preferred circuits might in fact add distortion
> that the CF doesn't?
> It's no secret that we often tend to prefer a signal with a slight amount
> of "pleasing" harmonic distortion as compared to a completely "dry" one.
Absolutely. Preferences in audio (do we mean tube audio?) seem inevitably
to come back to subjective choices in spectral distortion.
I like lots of H2, and a little H3. Seems to add 'body' and 'realism'.
Mind you, don't know how you interpret those words...
A stiff loading on the plate of a triode gives me this sound. Increase the
plate resistor for more gain and less distortion, after adjusting the volume
to the same level I find it unsatisfying, more like a SS amplifier.
Then I take a hostile look at my pricey tubes with all their expensive,
bulky infrastructure, and ask myself why I bothered. So I go back to the
stiff plate load...
BTW, the upper tube on Wright's SLCF is not a cascode. Since a cascode has
a fixed upper grid bias, and the SLCF upper grid tracks the lower grid, this
cannot be so. I'd call it a Two Tube Series Amplifier variant - a totem
topology for short.
Cheers,
Hugh R. Dean
Melbourne, Australia
=========================================================================
From: Ken Gilbert <ride5000@ride.ri.net>
Subject: Was [JN] Cheap 96 kHz/24 Bit DAC Kit
Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 08:17:34 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n219
Hug wrote:
>I like lots of H2, and a little H3. Seems to add 'body' and 'realism'.
>Mind you, don't know how you interpret those words...
>
>A stiff loading on the plate of a triode gives me this sound.
That is very interesting, since it is often the way I load the triode
stages in guitar amplifiers... Usually instead of a low value Rl, instead I
use a heavy shunt load on the other side of the coupling cap. This keeps
the grid circuit impedance very low and "fast" in terms of TC as well.
Interesting that you've found the heavy load more pleasing as well.
>Increase the
>plate resistor for more gain and less distortion, after adjusting the volume
>to the same level I find it unsatisfying, more like a SS amplifier.
Of course, us musicians do like our even harmonics--nice octaves and
pleasing intervals add GREATLY to the depth of sound. This is the
difference between a well-tweaked tube amp and a cheap SS fuzzbox effect
pedal with diode op-amp clipping... Well, that and the recovery from
overload conditions/transients.
Ken Gilbert
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: Was [JN] Cheap 96 kHz/24 Bit DAC Kit
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 23:33:17 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n225
>Absolutely. Preferences in audio (do we mean tube audio?) seem inevitably
>to come back to subjective choices in spectral distortion.
>
>I like lots of H2, and a little H3.
I do not like both and if I have to choose, yes, I would accept more H2
than H3.
However wrongly designed CFs add lots of H3
>Seems to add 'body' and 'realism'.
>Mind you, don't know how you interpret those words...
>
>A stiff loading on the plate of a triode gives me this sound. Increase the
>plate resistor for more gain and less distortion, after adjusting the volume
>to the same level I find it unsatisfying, more like a SS amplifier.
I would like to advise to increase Rp instead of decrease Ra, but yes, both
give the same improvement
>Then I take a hostile look at my pricey tubes with all their expensive,
>bulky infrastructure, and ask myself why I bothered. So I go back to the
>stiff plate load...
>
>BTW, the upper tube on Wright's SLCF is not a cascode. Since a cascode has
>a fixed upper grid bias, and the SLCF upper grid tracks the lower grid, this
>cannot be so. I'd call it a Two Tube Series Amplifier variant - a totem
>topology for short.
OK. The upper tube cascodes the lower one and therefore shall not be called
cascode
Have fun
Guido
>Cheers,
>
>Hugh R. Dean
>Melbourne, Australia
>
>
>
>
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: Was [JN] Cheap 96 kHz/24 Bit DAC Kit
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 23:33:28 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n225
At 08:17 03/08/99 -0400, Ken Gilbert wrote:
>Hug wrote:
>
>>I like lots of H2, and a little H3. Seems to add 'body' and 'realism'.
>>Mind you, don't know how you interpret those words...
>>
>>A stiff loading on the plate of a triode gives me this sound.
>
>That is very interesting, since it is often the way I load the triode
>stages in guitar amplifiers...
which is "against" tradition.....
>Usually instead of a low value Rl, instead I
>use a heavy shunt load on the other side of the coupling cap.
So you have high currents through the cap, not my favourite
>This keeps
>the grid circuit impedance very low and "fast" in terms of TC as well.
>Interesting that you've found the heavy load more pleasing as well.
Any idea why ? One day I'll explain you but first give it your thought
Have fun
Guido
=========================================================================
From: Neil Jendon <neil@newcontrol.com>
Subject: Re: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:07:11 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n807
Hey,
Just about every rant on this list has been right on. Just want to add my
rantlet.
I will grant that not even a 20 or 50 part series could cover the subject
satisfactorily, but I thought it was a gross oversight to neglect the rest
of the world's contributions to the genre. The usual Ken Burns patriotism
was so overwhelming, and the emphasis was so hard on the "first American art
form" that the rest of the world was ignored.
In particular, Europe's importance, both for its jazz lovers and players,
was virtually ignored. One of the times Europe was mentioned was in a
segment on the Art Ensemble of Chicago; the announcer said that the AEC
failed to attract an American audience and were only popular with college
students in France. The tone was, to me, derisive. Shame on the AEC, Eric
Dolphy, Dexter Gordon, Nina Simone and countless others for finding a place
outside our borders where they could make a living.
And, no mention of European jazz musicians, e.g. Django Reinhardt, a big
influence on Charlie Christian, who in turn influenced bebop. No mention of
the brilliant musicians from Cuba and South America who have made priceless
contributions to the genre, either.
West Coast jazzers took a few cheap shots, too.
...but my favorite was the critic who was brought on solely to take shots at
Cecil Taylor, thus ending the segment on the avant-garde. And then Herbie
Hancock talking down fusion like it was an aberration, a blip on the road
until Wynton came and set us all straight (that is, with our backs to the
future and blinders on).
Up until the last episode, I thought the series was narrow-minded, but the
last episode revealed the revisionist history that it was.
- -neil
=========================================================================
From: Robert C Chambers <rchamber@norwich.edu>
Subject: Re: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:59:16 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n807
Hello Joes-
On Wed, 14 Feb 2001, Le Cleac'h Jean-Michel wrote:
.
.
.
> ... was the
> influence of French composers like:
>
> Debussy, Ravel and Satie (that's amazing the number of jazz version of
> "Gimnopedies" existing)
.
.
.
Oui! A recent favourite of mine is PARIS SUITE, Bob Brookmeyer New
Quartet, Challenge Records Cat. No. 70026 which includes a piece entitled
ERIK SATIE!
And yes, there are so many unmentioned players who have given us such
beautiful music.
Bringing to us tears of joy.
Regards,
Robert
=========================================================================
From: "Le Cleac'h Jean-Michel" <lecleach@paris.ensmp.fr>
Subject: Re: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:06:07 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n807
- -----Message d'origine-----
De : Neil Jendon <neil@newcontrol.com>
À : joenet Joenet <sound@lists.io.com>
Date : mardi 13 février 2001 23:23
Objet : Re: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns
>In particular, Europe's importance, both for its jazz lovers and players,
>was virtually ignored.
>And, no mention of European jazz musicians, e.g. Django Reinhardt, a big
>influence on Charlie Christian, who in turn influenced bebop.
Hello,
IMHO a major influence, but stangely neglected, on Jazz that changed it from
an afroamerican music near of blues to a more "european music" was the
influence of French composers like:
Debussy, Ravel and Satie (that's amazing the number of jazz version of
"Gimnopedies" existing)
Best regards,
Jean-Michel Le Cleac'h, Paris, France
=========================================================================
From: "Andy Evans" <arts.psychology@cwcom.net>
Subject: Re: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:36:31 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n807
> IMHO a major influence, but stangely neglected, on Jazz that changed it
from an afroamerican music near of blues to a more "european music" was the
influence of French composers like: Debussy, Ravel and Satie >
No sane person would claim that jazz, as we now know it, isn't a world music
with many influences. Blues singers didn't have Steinway pianos, German
basses and Turkish cymbals - which are part of any decent jazz trio. and a
set without a Latin number in it would wipe the continent of South America
off the map. Modern pianists are music graduates who cite Scriabin and
Mahler as influences. That's reality. But no sane person wouldn't claim that
jazz owed more to black American musicians than anybody else. It's different
to "owe" and to "own". The English started cricket, football and rugby, but
only an idiot would claim they "owned" the games.
=========================================================================
From: David Barnett <d_n_b@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:11:24 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n807
On Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:36:31 +0000, Andy Evans
<arts.psychology@cwcom.net> wrote:
> Blues singers didn't have Steinway pianos, German
>basses and Turkish cymbals - which are part of any decent jazz trio.
I fail to see the significance of the national origin of the hardware
as an influence on the music. After all, King Sunny Ade plays a
Fender Stratocaster guitar, but his music is still purely African.
By the way, you forgot to mention Selmer and LeBlanc saxophones from
Paris... <G>
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: Michael Greene <mgreene@bnl.gov>
Subject: Re: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:54:20 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n807
Go back even further in the influence stream and you find that the original
banjo like string instrument that spawned the guitar and other string
instruments has been acknowledged by musicologists as being a instrument that
originated in Africa. Flutes, thousands of years old, have been found in ancient
Egyptian tombs that have the "western" diatonic scale - Egypt is in Africa by
the way.
Andy Evans wrote:
> > I fail to see the significance of the national origin of the hardware
> > as an influence on the music. >
>
> My point is that the hardware influences the software, a not unobserved
> phenomenon... Blues music with basic guitars and bottlenecks produced a
> different music from jazz trios with grand pianos, classical double basses
> and sophisticated drum kits.
>
> In addition to this it is worth pointing out that the cultural origins of
> such pianos, cymbals and double basses was European, as the cultural origins
> of the blues were African. The more you analyse what went into jazz the more
> diverse is appears to be. If you like, I was making two points in one.
=========================================================================
From: Joe Roberts <jroberts@io.com>
Subject: Re: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:34:18 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n807
>> I fail to see the significance of the national origin of the hardware
>> as an influence on the music. >
>My point is that the hardware influences the software, a not unobserved
phenomenon...
I'd say the software influences the hardware MORE.
For instance, in the aforementioned case of Sunny Ade's juju music, the Fender
guitar, "jazz bass" (electric), and even "Hawaiian guitar" pedal steel are used
to "talk"
in the manner of the talking drum for example, the drummers can be playing
praise songs of your lineage, while the bass cuts in with a potent riff that is
actually a proverb that your great grandfather was known by.
The idea is to get you so worked up that you rip off your diamond pave Rolex
and give it to Sunny on the spot . Seriously, that's how juju musicians get
paid. They don't do concerts in Nigeria, only play parties for tribute.
Musicians make money because they know the praise poetry (oriki) and when
you're praised, you got to pay to justify the praise.
Blues players from earlier country styles on through now, routinely "talk" with
their instruments, including Euro pianos, brass instruments, German Hohner
harmonicas, etc. even though English is harder to speak on most instruments
than juju music's tonal Yoruba language.
I think that bending the hardware to the software is a major creative principle
in African music--even if there isn't any "hardware" such as when the voice
itself is used to simulate instruments.
As for the Euro instruments in Jazz, the way I read it is that a lot of cats
were picking out weird European instruments to jam on specifically to make the
point that they can take over that stuff and do it to it with it.
Joe
[referenced in the Credits to Chris Waterman's book on Juju Music as 'Homeboy
Joe']
=========================================================================
From: "Andy Evans" <arts.psychology@cwcom.net>
Subject: Re: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:04:05 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n807
> I fail to see the significance of the national origin of the hardware
> as an influence on the music. >
My point is that the hardware influences the software, a not unobserved
phenomenon... Blues music with basic guitars and bottlenecks produced a
different music from jazz trios with grand pianos, classical double basses
and sophisticated drum kits.
In addition to this it is worth pointing out that the cultural origins of
such pianos, cymbals and double basses was European, as the cultural origins
of the blues were African. The more you analyse what went into jazz the more
diverse is appears to be. If you like, I was making two points in one.
=========================================================================
From: "Hugh R. Dean" <aksa1@optushome.com.au>
Subject: Re: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:00:32 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n807
Jean-Michel, that bastion of Gallic dignity and intelligence, ecrit:
> Hello,
>
> IMHO a major influence, but stangely neglected, on Jazz that changed it
from
> an afroamerican music near of blues to a more "european music" was the
> influence of French composers like:
>
> Debussy, Ravel and Satie (that's amazing the number of jazz version of
> "Gimnopedies" existing)
Mon Dieu, J-M, I have Jacques Loussier Trio playing Satie (whose mother was
a Scot, I believe!) on Telarc CD-83431. It is a magnificent recording, and
absolutely entrancing, even after playing it at least 50 times.
Recommended. Includes Gnossiennes as well.
Cheers,
Hugh
Hugh R. Dean
Research/Technical Director
www.printedelectronics.com
Melbourne AUSTRALIA
=========================================================================
From: "Bart Shepherd \(Home\)" <bart.s@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 23:38:20 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n807
Let's not get too carried away with internationalism.
Certainly there are many fine players in places as diverse as Tokyo or
Sydney.
But Jazz has a tradition to follow and this was largely created by African
Americans even if some of them created it in Paris on German and Turkish
instruments.
It is certainly open to absorbing other influences and to being played in
all places by all nationalities but if it loses its roots it will cease to
be recognisable as Jazz.
Jazz is far more defined and restricted than just improvised music. There
have been a number of highly talented leading classical musicians who have
attempted Jazz and been embarrassing failures. They didnt pay their dues and
study its roots.
I , for one, am happy to consider Jazz a fundamentally black American music,
even though from hearing them there are Japanese players I couldn't tell
were not black.
Maybe now it is being played by white black people!?
Cheers,
Bart
=========================================================================
From: "Andy Evans" <arts.psychology@cwcom.net>
Subject: Re: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 00:12:03 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n807
> Go back even further in the influence stream and you find that the
original
> banjo like string instrument that spawned the guitar and other string
> instruments has been acknowledged by musicologists as being a instrument
that originated in Africa>
Yes, and Renaissance art originated in cave paintings. So what? The point I
am making is that the specific instruments in the typical jazz rhythm
section derived from Europe. The piano was a development of the fortepiano
was a development of harpsichord etc etc. - all European. Double basses were
developed from bass viols etc, built originally in Europe. The drumkit as
such was a jazz phenomenon as far as I know, though the constituent parts
were European in origin. The point made about African musicians "making use
of" all sorts of instruments to communicate their music is a good one, of
course. But it is also true that when the roots of jazz came out of the
countryside and into the cities and musicians started using pianos, pianists
firstly started playing simple figures and then fairly rapidly evolved from
that into the complexities of boogie, stride, swing and modernism. The
opportunity that the piano offered was taken to the max by people like Art
Tatum. And in playing the piano, jazz musicians throughout the 20th century
were influenced by the sounds that the piano made in classical music - from
Bach (John Lewis) to Scriabin (Chick Corea). Same for the double bass, but
in this case the best jazz bassists like Lafaro lowered the action more than
a typical classical player who has to play arco with a strong tone, and this
enabled them to develop extended positions with whole tones between fingers
(Clint Houston, Stanley Clarke) and easy use of thumb positions (Eddie
Gomez). All this enabled a new virtuosity which influenced the whole
development of the rhythm section from Bill Evans onwards.
The roots of jazz and its greatest figures are Afro-American - nobody is
denying that. But a lot of European stuff went into the shaping of jazz,
both hardware and software. The USA was a melting pot for both European and
African culture - does anyone have any difficulty admitting that?
=========================================================================
From: "Bart Shepherd \(Home\)" <bart.s@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:47:53 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n807
>
In addition to this it is worth pointing out that the cultural origins of
such pianos, cymbals and double basses was European, as the cultural origins
of the blues were African. The more you analyse what went into jazz the more
diverse is appears to be. If you like, I was making two points in one.
>
Yes and this has nothing to do with the country of origin of equipment.
Africans met European culture in the United States of America where they
created the music. If it wasn't for this fact, all Jazz as we know it would
not exist.
=========================================================================
From: "Andy Evans" <arts.psychology@cwcom.net>
Subject: Re: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 09:40:56 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n808
So what is wrong with the USA claiming this as a national cultural treasure?
The internationalism arguments to me are like wanting to relabel Chinese
food because it is now cooked everywhere with many western variations.
Jazz is a hell of a lot more American than apple pie ;-)>
No, I'm against Jazz being called "American" music just as much as I'm
against classical music being called "European" music - as it is in the USA.
Nationalism has little to offer culture or its greatest exponents.
Rachmaninov and Stravinsky's most Russian music was written outside Russia,
Chopin's most Polish outside Poland, Ibsen's masterpieces outside Norway.
Great jazz musicians moved both from the USA to Europe and the rest of the
world and vica versa. If I had to choose between narrowing down jazz music
to the debated word "jazz" I'd do that far more willingly than to narrow it
down to the word American. Jazz has been a world phenomenon for decades. Of
course it was born and grew in the USA, but it started travelling in its
late teens like any self respecting creative spirit.
=========================================================================
From: "Bart Shepherd \(Home\)" <bart.s@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:15:13 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n808
This discussion seems to have gone full circle!
The original issue was the claim that Jazz was American. The counter claim
was that Jazz is international, not purely American.
This since has been totally confused with talk of the origins of pre-Jazz or
loosely related music types and the sources and nature of instruments.
>
The USA was a melting pot for both European and African culture - does
anyone have any difficulty admitting that?
>
Exactly! So the origin and the huge majority of the development of Jazz
was by African Americans. So what is wrong with the USA claiming this as a
national cultural treasure?
The internationalism arguments to me are like wanting to relabel Chinese
food because it is now cooked everywhere with many western variations.
Jazz is a hell of lot more American than apple pie ;-)
Cheers,
Bart
=========================================================================
From: "Bart Shepherd \(Home\)" <bart.s@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 21:55:16 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n808
Andy,
I suggest your beliefs satisfy how you want to see things politically.
You may be against something but need to demonstrate why.
I believe the reality is that just about everything important in Jazz
happened with Americian musicians and probably 75% or more of them black.
There are a hell of a lot of good players here in Australia but just about
none of them have altered the direction of the music. This has been done by
a relatively small group of key influencers.
Get any list of Jazz bibliographies ( I have one of 1,100) and count the
people by origin and race. Then sift out the people who count.
So here is a challenge. Please publish a list of the non American people who
have seriously influenced the development of Jazz. Please spare me the
inclusion of people who "swing" Bach or lead dance bands.
Once you have this list, delete the people who actually live(d) in America
for some time.
BTW I believe "Classical" music is "European" Music also. The conventions
like scales were locked in early. Go ask a virtuoso Japanese violinist if
they don't see it as European.
Cheers,
Bart
- -----Original Message-----
From: Andy Evans [mailto:arts.psychology@cwcom.net]
Sent: Thursday, 15 February 2001 8:41 PM
To: Bart Shepherd (Home); Michael Greene
Cc: David Barnett; sound@lists.io.com
Subject: Re: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns
So what is wrong with the USA claiming this as a national cultural treasure?
The internationalism arguments to me are like wanting to relabel Chinese
food because it is now cooked everywhere with many western variations.
Jazz is a hell of a lot more American than apple pie ;-)>
No, I'm against Jazz being called "American" music just as much as I'm
against classical music being called "European" music - as it is in the USA.
Nationalism has little to offer culture or its greatest exponents.
Rachmaninov and Stravinsky's most Russian music was written outside Russia,
Chopin's most Polish outside Poland, Ibsen's masterpieces outside Norway.
Great jazz musicians moved both from the USA to Europe and the rest of the
world and vica versa. If I had to choose between narrowing down jazz music
to the debated word "jazz" I'd do that far more willingly than to narrow it
down to the word American. Jazz has been a world phenomenon for decades. Of
course it was born and grew in the USA, but it started travelling in its
late teens like any self respecting creative spirit.
=========================================================================
From: David Barnett <d_n_b@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns - now Bart's long rave
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 02:55:09 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n806
On Tue, 13 Feb 2001 17:14:12 +1100, "Bart Shepherd (Home)"
<bart.s@bigpond.net.au> wrote:
>I have heard Marsalis and his band live once and was disappointed.
>A bunch of pretentious psuedo-intellectuals with no soul at all.
>Try to impress, fail to feel.
>
>His mouth makes him close to a racist pig.
I once worked on the crew for a Wynton Marsalis show. I found it
stiff, boring, and academic. After the show, as we were packing away
the sound equipment, I was quietly whistling "Blue Monk" to myself as
I went about my business. I was lying flat on my back under the
piano, removing the C-Ducer pickup, still whistling "Blue Monk," when
Wynton sat down at the piano and began playing. Playing "Blue Monk."
At that point the owner of the sound system, who was breaking down the
monitor console, and who is a pretty good piano player himself, began
inexplicably yelping "Blue Monk" like a wounded dog. Wynton stood up,
slammed down the lid on the piano, and exclaimed "Monk is much to
serious an artist to play before fools!" and he left the room.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "Andy Evans" <arts.psychology@cwcom.net>
Subject: Re: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns - now Bart's long rave
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:10:10 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n806
I've been ranting on rec.music.bluenote about exactly the same thing - jazz
as "American music" excluding its present world-wide status, and compressing
all that is valuable to me - post WW2 into the last programme. Kieth Jarrett
wrote a public letter putting all these points of view and received a lot of
support. He's a considerably bigger person in the history of jazz - as a
genuine innovator - than revisionists like Marsalis will ever be. He also
plays much better jazz.
At a time when Classical and Jazz have a tiny market share - round 3.5%
each - it's a better policy to "say it loud and say it proud" rather than
get historical and woebegone. As Dali said "the poorer I got the more we
tipped the waiters".
Andy Evans: andy@artsandmedia.com
Visit our website: http://www.artsandmedia.com
- ----- Original Message -----
=========================================================================
From: "Bart Shepherd \(Home\)" <bart.s@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns - now Bart's long rave
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 17:14:12 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n806
I have heard Marsalis and his band live once and was disappointed.
A bunch of pretentious psuedo-intellectuals with no soul at all.
Try to impress, fail to feel.
His mouth makes him close to a racist pig.
But my big beef is with none of the above - I'm just really pissed that the
one big chance for Jazz to be presented to Joe Public is blown so badly.
People will watch it and write off the culture with a "so what - what's all
the fuss about - knew I hated it!
Oh well, maybe I dont really want them all to "get it" anyway. It's already
aversion therapy to have "Kind of Blue" ( that I bought as a 14yo kid and
love so much) played to death now as background in lifts and department
stores! When I was 14 they wouldn't play it for me on the radio!
But if I had that power!!
I wouldn't do the history thing and wouldn't present all the guys already
publicly famous ( not a tautology). My bias is post WWII so maybe I'd open
with a Billy but quickly move on to
Parker / Gillespie/ Powell / Monk then on to
Brown / Roach / Mingus / Blakey through
Davis / Coltrane / Adderly /Evans ( B &G!) / Hancock
throw in some lyrical Baker / Getz / Baron
then maybe Corea / Jarret / Haden
indicate some modern electric influence through perhaps Return to Forever
and Weather Report / Zawinul Syndicate
and a little Cuban influence with Sandeval
and finish with a full on where its at with likes of Redman and Hargrove.
I have even missed a lot of my own favourites so no correspondence but the
above would do it for me. With some heavy research must be able to dig out
clips for most of the above.
BTW did y'all see Jarret's letter to the NYT - really stuck it up Marsalis!
The read it out loud an a national Jazz radio show over here.
Apparently we get this show about June and there seems little enthusiasm for
it in Jazz circles.
Cheers,
Bart
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
Behalf Of Hugh R. Dean
Sent: Tuesday, 13 February 2001 3:55 PM
To: Joenet
Subject: [JN] JC on Ken Burns
Guys,
There is a malevolent erudition from jc which fills me with ineffable
admiration.
If his passion lacked intellectual credentials, it would be embarassing.
However, given his achievements and towering insights, his posts are worth
keeping forever.
Well done JC. Others Down Under agree with you...
With feeling,
Hugh
Hugh R. Dean
Research/Technical Director
www.printedelectronics.com
Melbourne AUSTRALIA
=========================================================================
From: "Bart Shepherd \(Home\)" <bart.s@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns - now Bart's long rave
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 07:05:55 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n806
From David - Wynton says:
>"Monk is much to
>serious an artist to play before fools!" and he left the room
Pretty well sums it up - this dude just takes himself far to seriously!
A legend in his own mind.
Bart
=========================================================================
From: "Bart Shepherd \(Home\)" <bart.s@bigpond.net.au>
Subject: RE: was [JN] JC on Ken Burns - now Bart's long rave
Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 08:09:46 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n807
Hey Andy,
Congratulations on a truly awsome set of audio links!
Everybody, check them out!
http://www.artsandmedia.com
You are too modest with such a light under a bushell.
I agree with your comments entirely.
I'm not familiar with Keith Jarret's background but his earlier recordings
hint of a strong classical background or at least training.
He has absorbed far more of the Jazz traditions over the years and his
recent stuff is to my mind more "Jazz". I also certainly rate him a better
Jazz musician than Marsalis.
It is interesting how difficult it is to define Jazz but how easy to
recognise what is and what isn't. Spontenaiety and improvisation are
necessary but not sufficient. It is actually a quite rigid framework. The
more some try to break loose the less they seem able. A lot is bound with
history and tradition.
For me it's the bent notes!
Bart
Cheers,
Bart
=========================================================================
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@talkware.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] was Line transformer outputs now virus checker
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2000 23:31:13 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n744
On Thu, Nov 23, 2000 at 11:59:34AM +1100, Riesz, Ted - PETFISH spake thusly:
> While this is off topic, thought it sufficiently relevant to the group to
> raise. My apologies to those not interested.
>
> How does this virus checker compare to Nortons anti- virus?
>
>
> MickMaloney wrote> BTW this virus detector Hugh Dean put me on to is a great
> program and
> free-the price to pay is the "ad" tacked on the bottom of my email-sorry
> for the space but you can be reasonably sure I wont leave any nasties.
>
> Regards
>
> Ted Riesz who was recently a (temporary) victim of the MTX virus
For virus protection, i highly recommend that you use the last Windows
service pack you'll ever need - Linux. (1) A properly designed operating
system, with its source code open for debugging and refinement, is
effectively immune to the kinds of viruses that plague Windows. (2)
Joenetters know the value of people working for love over money!
I use the mutt email client on Red Hat 6.2 (although i'm experimenting
with Debian) both at work and at home. Not only am i free from viruses
and crashes, but i have much more complete control over my user interface,
and i'm more productive than i ever was with Windows.
Try it! It's the best thing since the first time you removed a negative
feedback loop...
1. Some prefer FreeBSD, OpenBSD, or NetBSD to Linux. They sure the same
fundamentally sound design, similar Free source code licensing, and a
great deal of the same source code. Any of them are better than Windows
in almost every respect except social conformity.
2. Some MS supporters claim that the only reason there are no viruses on
Linux is because it isn't yet popular, and its growing popularity
(combined with its open source code) will inevitably lead to the sort of
viruses that are constantly trashing Windows boxes. Technically speaking,
this is horse poop. All of the common virus classes in Windows would
violate the Unix security model in some way, and would be treated and
fixed as bugs in the operating system, not some external effect to be
monitored. And thirty years of Unix and nine of Linux has been brutally
effective at chasing down exploitable bugs.
- --
Dave Stagner <dstagner@talkware.net>
Universal Talkware Corporation
10 Second St. NE Suite 400, Minneapolis MN 55413
ph: 612-843-6749 fax: 612-843-6707
=========================================================================
From: Roberto Ripio <rripio@ctv.es>
Subject: Re: [JN] was Line transformer outputs now virus checker
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 10:53:35 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n744
El Wed, Nov 22, 2000 at 11:31:13PM -0600, Dave Stagner escribe:
> For virus protection, i highly recommend that you use the last Windows
> service pack you'll ever need - Linux.
Amen.
> I use the mutt email client on Red Hat 6.2 (although i'm experimenting
> with Debian)
The great advantage of Debian is the package management. Properly
configured, installing and upgrading binary packages from the internet is an
automatic proccess (fullfilment of dependencies between packages, security
updates, etc.), and even downloading, compiling and installing from sources
can be made with a single command line.
> and i'm more productive than i ever was with Windows.
...provided you don't try too much customization. :) In a linux system you
can modify *everything*... too big a temptation.
> All of the common virus classes in Windows would violate the Unix security
> model in some way, and would be treated and fixed as bugs in the operating
> system, not some external effect to be monitored. And thirty years of
> Unix and nine of Linux has been brutally effective at chasing down
> exploitable bugs.
Yes, and many years ago, UNIX designers thought that executable scripts in
email messages were a madness for security. It seems that MS didn't think
so...
Regards,
> Dave Stagner <dstagner@talkware.net>
- --
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roberto Ripio
rripio@ctv.es
=========================================================================
From: "Riesz, Ted - PETFISH" <Ted.Riesz@isr.gov.au>
Subject: [JN] was Line transformer outputs now virus checker
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 11:59:34 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n744
This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C054E8.90228F60
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Mick, Hugh or any IT heavies
While this is off topic, thought it sufficiently relevant to the group to
raise. My apologies to those not interested.
How does this virus checker compare to Nortons anti- virus?
MickMaloney wrote> BTW this virus detector Hugh Dean put me on to is a great
program and
free-the price to pay is the "ad" tacked on the bottom of my email-sorry
for the space but you can be reasonably sure I wont leave any nasties.
Regards
Ted Riesz who was recently a (temporary) victim of the MTX virus
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C054E8.90228F60
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META HTTP-EQUIV=3D"Content-Type" CONTENT=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META NAME=3D"Generator" CONTENT=3D"MS Exchange Server version =
5.5.2650.12">
<TITLE>was Line transformer outputs now virus checker</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Mick, Hugh or any IT heavies</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>While this is off topic, thought it sufficiently =
relevant to the group to raise. My apologies to those not =
interested.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>How does this virus checker compare to Nortons anti- =
virus?</FONT>
</P>
<BR>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>MickMaloney wrote> BTW this virus detector Hugh =
Dean put me on to is a great program and</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>free-the price to pay is the "ad" tacked =
on the bottom of my email-sorry</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2>for the space but you can be reasonably sure I wont =
leave any nasties.</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Regards</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=3D2>Ted Riesz who was recently a (temporary) victim of =
the MTX virus</FONT>
</P>
</BODY>
</HTML>
- ------_=_NextPart_001_01C054E8.90228F60--
=========================================================================
From: "Hugh R. Dean" <aksa1@optushome.com.au>
Subject: Re: [JN] was Line transformer outputs now virus checker
Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2000 18:38:18 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n744
was Line transformer outputs now virus checkerHi Ted, Mick,
Ted wrote:
>Mick, Hugh or any IT heavies
>While this is off topic, thought it sufficiently relevant to the group to
raise. My apologies to those not interested.
>How does this virus checker compare to Nortons anti- virus?
This is not a fair comparison, because if AVG finds MTX-A but Norton doesn't
one virus does not a general rule make.
However, in economic terms, a virus package which automatically updates each
couple of weeks with a download in excess of 2Mbytes (presently it's on
virus database 101!), and watches over the entire PC catastrophe and does it
all FREE - gets my vote, my gratitude, and my gratuitous marketing goodwill
for life.
Grisoft Inc interestingly is based in Prague. The marketing is US based, I
understand.
>MickMaloney wrote> BTW this virus detector Hugh Dean put me on to is a
great program and
>free-the price to pay is the "ad" tacked on the bottom of my email-sorry
>for the space but you can be reasonably sure I wont leave any nasties.
I think this certification message can be deleted; just double click the
AVG symbol on the function bar, go to Email Scanner, and uncheck the
'certify outgoing messages' box. I'll let you know if it works for me...
Cheers,
Hugh
Hugh R. Dean
www.printedelectronics.com
Melbourne AUSTRALIA
=========================================================================
From: "Riesz, Ted - PETFISH" <Ted.Riesz@isr.gov.au>
Subject: [JN] was magnet systems now cobalt
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 09:32:11 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n516
My understanding is that the major source of cobalt other than Russia is
Zaire (formerly the Belgian Congo).
Regards
Ted Riesz
Torbjxrn Lien wrote:
>
> Yes, this is so..Aluminium and nickel aren't that pricey, but
> cobalt is,-and at one point in the late seventies, cobalt could
> If i remember right, only be had from Russia and South Africa.
> This was pricey, and politically bothersome..
=========================================================================
From: irishtom@webtv.net (tom brennan)
Subject: Re: [JN] was magnet systems now cobalt
Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 20:55:57 -0500 (CDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n517
My understanding of the cobalt shortage goes like this, that after the
French and Belgian mining engineers fled Zaire after a brutal rebellion
the production of cobalt plummeted. I do remember a rebellion in Zaire
in the 70s in which many Europeans were massacred, I remember a photo in
Time or Newsweek of a room full of European women and kids who had been
killed. If I recall correctly the French sent the Foreign Legion down
there to evacuate the Europeans. Handy to have a force of non-citizens
to send into trouble so the electorate doesn't cry about "our boys", no?
Someday The United States will have to hire Ghurkas or Pathans to
project our power. Perhaps some of our European Joes have a remembrance
of this affair.
Tom Brennan
http://community.webtv.net/irishtom/TommysHornSpeaker
=========================================================================
From: StepHydro@aol.com
Subject: [JN] Was "Nickel wonder" & grid chokes, now
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:01:13 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n496
Ok,
I'm using the nickel wonders as grid chokes, and I collected a pair of
Hammond Universals for the OPTs, so I now have a pair of AES P-T291s without
a home.
How can I determine whether they would make suitable plate chokes for the
outputs? I will have both 1626 and type 46 OP tubes, inserting whichever I
want to run in the appropriate sockets. Neither tube will run more than 32
mils.
If thethe little AES OPTs will work as plate chokes, then I have the option
of setting up these amps for either parallel feed or "normal" operation.
TIA/Don Carron
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Was "Nickel wonder" & grid chokes, now
Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2000 00:15:17 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n496
In a message dated 3/25/00 10:05:27 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
StepHydro@aol.com writes:
> How can I determine whether they would make suitable plate chokes for the
> outputs?
Hi Ron,
Nickel wonders sound OK?
If you do not have audio chokes, you may use SE OPTs with no load on the
secondary.
Audio chokes are way better, and cheaper, but, if you HAVE some SE OPTs...
Happy Ears!
Al B^}
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: [JN] WAS oading a transformer NOW take my dumb tubes
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 20:38:31 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n672
TubeGarden@aol.com wrote:
>
> Greets!
>
> A high vacuum diode works wonders an LED cannot imagine.
>
> I have a 6W4GTA under my SV83 driving a 316A thru ElectaPrint IT.
>
If anyone has a use for 6W4s, I have a bunch I would otherwise toss.
Contact me... PLEASE! Also have a lot of used 6CG7/6FQ7, which is a
pretty cool tube, but what can I do with them all?
Rick
=========================================================================
From: David Home <DHome@creo.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] WAS Old messages NOW 2v Lead Acid Batteries for Black Ar ts 417A amp?
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 11:59:45 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n210
I think you need the 2V bias of the lead acid to get the most from the 417A.
I can't get the plate voltage above 130V with my Ericcisson(sp?) 5842s with
the 1.4V of a NiCd at 20ma.
Regards,
David Home
Creo Products Inc.,
4225 Kincaid Street,
Burnaby, British Columbia,
Canada, V5G 4P5
Tel. 604.451.2720 Ex. 2397
Fax. 604.437.9891
Cell 604.603.8743
Email: dhome@creo.com <mailto:dhome@creo.com>
Website:www.creo.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Francis [mailto:rfrancis@glasscity.net]
Sent: Friday, July 23, 1999 10:31 AM
To: John Levreault
Cc: Joenet
Subject: Re: [JN] WAS Old messages NOW 2v Lead Acid
Batteries for Black Arts 417A amp?
At 10:31 AM 7/23/99 -0400, John Levreault wrote:
>Help!
>
>Does anybody know why I'm getting the messages of July 8
again? I feel
like I'm
>in a time warp. Am I the only one?
>
I thought it was a glitch on the in-out tracking of my mail
server! Yes,
I'm getting them too.
On an audio note... I came across some WE 417A's, and
thought I'd see what
a spud amp can do for me. I like the Black Arts 417A amp
with a 2V battery
replacing a cathode resistor and cap of the earlier version.
A lead-acid
battery is specified. I wonder where to find such an item,
and why does
lead-acid matter?
FWIW, I thought I'd use these odd OPTs that Paul Joppa
measured as being
fine for parallel feed use, and use a Brooklyn plate choke,
the one rated
40H 50ma. This way I could use a single 417A with the 5K
pri, or 2 of them
paralleled with 2.5K, or...
Rick
=========================================================================
From: David Home <DHome@creo.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] WAS Old messages NOW 2v Lead Acid Batteries for Black Ar ts 417A amp?
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:01:42 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n210
Gelcells ARE lead/acid I believe.
Regards,
David Home
Creo Products Inc.,
4225 Kincaid Street,
Burnaby, British Columbia,
Canada, V5G 4P5
Tel. 604.451.2720 Ex. 2397
Fax. 604.437.9891
Cell 604.603.8743
Email: dhome@creo.com <mailto:dhome@creo.com>
Website:www.creo.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Kalman Rubinson [mailto:kr4@is2.nyu.edu]
Sent: Friday, July 23, 1999 12:42 PM
To: David Home
Cc: 'Rick Francis'; John Levreault; Joenet
Subject: RE: [JN] WAS Old messages NOW 2v Lead Acid
Batteries for Black Ar ts 417A amp?
On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, David Home wrote:
> I think you need the 2V bias of the lead acid to get the
most from the 417A.
> I can't get the plate voltage above 130V with my
Ericcisson(sp?) 5842s with
> the 1.4V of a NiCd at 20ma.
How about 2V gelcells?
Kal
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] WAS Old messages NOW 2v Lead Acid Batteries for Black Arts 417A amp?
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:31:28 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n210
At 10:31 AM 7/23/99 -0400, John Levreault wrote:
>Help!
>
>Does anybody know why I'm getting the messages of July 8 again? I feel
like I'm
>in a time warp. Am I the only one?
>
I thought it was a glitch on the in-out tracking of my mail server! Yes,
I'm getting them too.
On an audio note... I came across some WE 417A's, and thought I'd see what
a spud amp can do for me. I like the Black Arts 417A amp with a 2V battery
replacing a cathode resistor and cap of the earlier version. A lead-acid
battery is specified. I wonder where to find such an item, and why does
lead-acid matter?
FWIW, I thought I'd use these odd OPTs that Paul Joppa measured as being
fine for parallel feed use, and use a Brooklyn plate choke, the one rated
40H 50ma. This way I could use a single 417A with the 5K pri, or 2 of them
paralleled with 2.5K, or...
Rick
=========================================================================
From: Douglas Purl <dcp@selway.umt.edu>
Subject: Re: [JN] WAS Old messages NOW 2v Lead Acid Batteries for Black Arts 417A amp?
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:33:19 -0600 (MDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n210
On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, Rick Francis wrote:
> On an audio note... I came across some WE 417A's, and thought I'd see what
> a spud amp can do for me. I like the Black Arts 417A amp with a 2V battery
> replacing a cathode resistor and cap of the earlier version. A lead-acid
> battery is specified. I wonder where to find such an item?
I have observed the remanufacturing of automotive batteries. It is not a
daunting process. A motorcycle battery might make a good DIY project.
Remove the acid. Saw the top of the case off. Reconfigure the internal
connections to make two 2V batteries with parallel cells. Goop the top
back on and replace the electrolyte.
If you try this at home, wear ample protection, including eye, and have
the little woman standing by with a garden hose just in case. This will
give you the security to proceed. Don't use power tools.
The second one will be a piece of cake. You might even venture down to a
local remanufacturer and ask if you can buy a small battery prior to
closure of its case. Or if you can talk like a nostrum drummer, you might
enlist some help. Or you might get thrown out.
Doug Purl
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: RE: [JN] WAS Old messages NOW 2v Lead Acid Batteries for Black Ar ts 417A amp?
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 15:42:05 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n210
On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, David Home wrote:
> I think you need the 2V bias of the lead acid to get the most from the 417A.
> I can't get the plate voltage above 130V with my Ericcisson(sp?) 5842s with
> the 1.4V of a NiCd at 20ma.
How about 2V gelcells?
Kal
=========================================================================
From: Kalman Rubinson <kr4@is2.nyu.edu>
Subject: RE: [JN] WAS Old messages NOW 2v Lead Acid Batteries for Black Ar ts 417A amp?
Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 16:01:39 -0400 (EDT)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n210
On Fri, 23 Jul 1999, David Home wrote:
> Gelcells ARE lead/acid I believe.
Yes but, as they say in the adverts, "in a friendlier
and more convenient form" than the traditional one.
Kal
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: [JN] WAS paralleled Diodes NOW Edisonism
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 15:48:31 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n161
At 10:25 AM 6/1/99 -0700, spence barton wrote:
SNIPPED COOL STUFF
>
>The first time I built one was with damper diodes. You could fire up the amp
>with the damper diodes pulled and listen for an hour and then in the middle
>of a piece of music you could plug in the tube rectifiers and hear them
>improve the sound as the filaments warmed up.
>
>So anyway, be careful brother Frank about saying things like the first
>sentence of your post above, if you haven't listened to the circuit in
>question. There IS DEFINITLY a change when the rectifier tube is pulled. I
>wouldn't want to speculate on the mechanism, except to say that perhaps the
>tube calmly conducts during the tiny portion of each cycle when the SS
>diodes are turning themselves inside out switching.
>
>Theory is wonderful until it is contradicted by empirical results.
>
Great post, Spence! A lot of would-be scientists forget that science
attempst to explain the PHENOMENA. As soon as you try to ignore the
phenomena, or interpret it only through the accepted wisdom... well, you know.
But wasn't Edison one who mightily stressed empirical evidence, rather than
starting from theory? I think Scott is using the wrong guy here!!!
Rick Francis
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] WAS paralleled Diodes NOW Edisonism
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 16:03:53 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n161
Rick Francis wrote:
> (snip)
>
> But wasn't Edison one who mightily stressed empirical evidence, rather than
> starting from theory? I think Scott is using the wrong guy here!!!
>
> Rick Francis
Yes, he did stress empirical evidence, but only in controlled scientific
experiments. You know, scientific method and all that.
S.G.
P.S. Edison was vehement about not wasting lab time on something that he couldn't
turn into money. I'm not sure how that fits in here, but it came to mind....
S.G.
- --
TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore! http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/
Smoke Free Youth! http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/smokefreeyouth.html
The Price of Privacy. http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/privacy.html
"The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from."
-- Andrew S. Tanenbaum, _Computer Networks_, 2nd ed, p.254
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] WAS paralleled Diodes NOW Edisonism
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 17:07:46 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n161
At 04:03 PM 6/1/99 -0400, Scott Grammer wrote:
>
>Rick Francis wrote:
>
>> (snip)
>>
>> But wasn't Edison one who mightily stressed empirical evidence, rather than
>> starting from theory? I think Scott is using the wrong guy here!!!
>>
>
>Yes, he did stress empirical evidence, but only in controlled scientific
>experiments. You know, scientific method and all that.
>S.G.
>
>P.S. Edison was vehement about not wasting lab time on something that he
couldn't
>turn into money. I'm not sure how that fits in here, but it came to mind....
>
Maybe I've confused things there, but I thought Tesla snickered at Edison's
method of trying 100 nearly-random items to solve a practical problem,
rather than using theory to formulate a hypothesis, in order to then come
up with a half-dozen items to test the hypothesis.
In other words, Tesla thought Edison wasted lots of lab time by not
adequately developing theory to formulate a hypothesis to test -- and so
one could argue that Edison's particular scientific method, despite his use
of controlled experiments, depended more on perspiration than inspiration,
at least compared to Tesla's. I hope I've got the history basically right
here. Rectify me if I'm wrong (vague allusion to the great 1958 film,
"Sweet Smell of Success").
Rick
=========================================================================
From: Scott Grammer <tubedude@cdc.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] WAS paralleled Diodes NOW Edisonism
Date: Tue, 01 Jun 1999 20:11:11 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n162
Rick Francis wrote:
> (snip)
> Maybe I've confused things there, but I thought Tesla snickered at Edison's
> method of trying 100 nearly-random items to solve a practical problem,
> rather than using theory to formulate a hypothesis, in order to then come
> up with a half-dozen items to test the hypothesis.
>
I suspect it was because Edison was not such a great theorist.
Edison said:
"I speak without exaggeration when I say that I have constructed 3000 different
theories in
connection with the electric light...yet in only two cases did my experiments
prove the truth of my theory."
He also said:
"Results? Why, man, I have gotten lots of results! If I find 10,000 ways something
won't work, I haven't failed.
I am not discouraged, because every wrong attempt discarded is another step
forward. Just because something
doesn't do what you planned it to do doesn't mean it's useless."
Edison was definitely a trial and error man, but he did always verify his results
in one method or another that could not be disputed.
Such scientific testing is despised with much venom in the audiophile community,
because it tends to shed light in places they would rather keep dark. ABX testing
is an accepted (by scientists) method of determining the audibility of changes
made to an audio system, yet mention it here and flames arrive from all
directions. Why? I submit it is because this sort of test shows that many of the
tweaks audiophiles spend big bucks and many hours on do nothing.
As I said in an earlier post, I will not try to preach this sort of scientism (is
that a word?) here, because I have tried before to no avail. I have decided to
simply accept that there are those who want to believe things that make no sense
to me, like the aforementioned diode thread, or like the idea that video games
make kids go nuts and take guns and bombs to school, or that smoking is perfectly
safe.
I apologize in advance if I have offended anyone, no offense was meant.
S.G.
- --
TubeDude's Webpage of Vacuum Tube Lore! http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/
Smoke Free Youth! http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/smokefreeyouth.html
The Price of Privacy. http://www.cdc.net/~tubedude/privacy.html
"The nice thing about standards is that you have so many to choose from."
-- Andrew S. Tanenbaum, _Computer Networks_, 2nd ed, p.254
=========================================================================
From: "spence barton" <ence-ack@rio.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] WAS paralleled Diodes NOW Edisonism
Date: Wed, 2 Jun 1999 10:42:06 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n164
>As I said in an earlier post, I will not try to preach this sort of
scientism (is
>that a word?) here, because I have tried before to no avail. I have decided
to
>simply accept that there are those who want to believe things that make no
sense
>to me, like the aforementioned diode thread, ...
I don't care what you preach here, in fact I rather like the "scientism".
What I object too is your arrogant assumption that if you can't explain a
phenomenon by the simplest mechanism it must be wishful thinking on the part
of the poor deluded goob who mentioned it. The reason there is not a great
positive response to your preaching is that too much of it is not informed
by actually TRYING things. Since you haven't tried it, your insistence that
the effect does not exist and is only the result of people's wishful
thinking sounds a little less than scientific and takes on an aspect of
religious faith itself
We had a gentleman on the list who was a great transformer expert. He had
never built a single ended nickel output but was very generous with his
expertise with a poor deluded soul who wanted to build one. The expert
focused on the simplest and most obvious property of nickel and railed on
loudly about the folly of even trying it. We still don't know which of the
several properties of nickel is reasonable for the good sound, not everyone
likes it but everyone who has heard a nickel output knows that nickel sound.
With the energy he spent ranting on the list, the expert could have built
one himself and tried it out. Then he might have learned something himself.
The poor soul the expert was trying to help went on to build the best
sounding output I have ever heard.
.Your posts are almost always interesting helpful and generous but you're
not the only person here with test gear and an understanding of how circuits
work. The idea that the only important part of the behavior of a diode is
the turn on voltage is unbelievably simplistic. There ARE other factors.
I have gone so far as to demonstrate this effect to a local hi-fi salesman
who was very sure I was deluded and in fact quite rude about it. He came and
listened to the system with the tubes removed. I told him I was going to put
the tubes in but I wasn't going to let him know when they went in. He
couldn't see me put them in but 5 seconds after they warmed up he whirled
around and demanded to know what I had just done. He then proceeded to tell
me just how and how much better it sounded and, a rude asshole to the end,
told me it had to be because I didn't know how to design a power supply and
a properly designed one wouldn't have this difference. This from a guy that
doesn't even know which end of a resistor is positive.
Scott, just listen to it and if you don't hear anything then we can have a
discussion about why it might be audible in some systems and not others. Or
whether it really doesn't exist. But if you're just going to sit at the
keyboard and sniff about unscientific people "who want to believe things
that make no sense to me" then you are the one who "wants to believe". I
don't give a rat's ass what sounds better, I just use what sounds good. It
seems very important to you that this be an imagined effect. Why is that?
Maybe if Edison hadn't been so worried about "wasting lab time" he might
have tried a carbon filament in the light bulb a year or so earlier.
I don't believe of disbelieve ANYTHING until I hear it. Now that's
scientific.
spence
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <rintelen@datacomm.ch>
Subject: Re: [JN] WAS paralleled Diodes NOW Edisonism
Date: Wed, 02 Jun 1999 20:28:17 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n164
spence barton wrote:
> This from a guy that doesn't even know which end of a resistor is positive.
Could have been me ;-)
Christian
=========================================================================
From: John Dahlman <jdahlman@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Was Quiet , now favorite recording ?
Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 12:10:34 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n619
> Hi Ed. Nice topic! After a day of trying to get 6bq5s sounding good, it's
> nice to think about the point of all this. Although there is a certain allure
> to silver solder fumes ;-) Sooooo, how 'bout Ellington and Armstrong. It just
> plain swings. Of course, there's always The Anna Russell Album. Gilbert and
> Sullivan were never more fun :-)
Cheers,
John
=========================================================================
From: "Ed Coleman" <ecoleman@whidbey.net>
Subject: [JN] Was Quiet , now favorite recording ?
Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 21:37:14 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n619
Hey Joes, since it is soooo quiet , I was wondering what are some of your
favorite recordings. They don't have to be popular , or even recorded real
well , just a personal favorite . Mine ? um , Bob Dylan live 1966 , I love
the acoustic for its intimate , personal feel. I love the electric for its
edge and in your face atitude (well , at least in '66 it was !) . Yours ?
............
=========================================================================
From: "Fred Volz" <fcv@emotiveaudio.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Was Quiet , now favorite recording ?
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 02:24:16 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n619
- -----Original Message-----
From: Ed Coleman <ecoleman@whidbey.net>
To: Hugh R Dean <aspen@alphalink.com.au>; Joenet <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Date: Monday, August 07, 2000 12:45 AM
Subject: [JN] Was Quiet , now favorite recording ?
>Hey Joes, since it is soooo quiet , I was wondering what are some of your
>favorite recordings.
This is one of those subjects that always seems to get people (me) in
trouble. And, I can't pick just one record. But, here are some of my
favorites anyway.
1. Pepe Romero--Songs My Father Taught Me
2. Eva Cassedy--Live at Blues Alley
3. Ben Harper--Welcome to the Cruel World
4. Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong--Ella and Louis
5. Any early and some later Ian and Sylvia
6. Perlman and Ashkenazy--Brahms Violin Sonatas
7. Hendrix--Smash Hits
....plus many more.
Best wishes,
Fred Volz
fcv@emotiveaudio.com
=========================================================================
From: Dave Stagner <dstagner@talkware.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Was Quiet , now favorite recording ?
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 11:18:54 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n619
On Sun, Aug 06, 2000 at 09:37:14PM -0700, Ed Coleman wrote:
> Hey Joes, since it is soooo quiet , I was wondering what are some of your
> favorite recordings. They don't have to be popular , or even recorded real
> well , just a personal favorite . Mine ? um , Bob Dylan live 1966 , I love
> the acoustic for its intimate , personal feel. I love the electric for its
> edge and in your face atitude (well , at least in '66 it was !) . Yours ?
> ............
I try to make a point of listening to Nick Drake every day. If you don't
know his music, think of the "Pink Moon" commercial for Volkswagen.
That's his song. Thirty seconds of his music on a commercial led to tens
of thousands of new Nick Drake albums being sold - probably more than it
sold of Volkswagens. Not bad for an obscure songwriter who died nearly 30
years ago, and left only three albums and some outtakes.
If you haven't already bought the "Fruit Tree" boxed set, do yourself a
favor and at least pick up an introduction. Any of his albums will do -
all three are *perfect*, and the "Way to Blue" collection is wonderful
too.
My listening has changed a lot recently. Most of it now is listening to
mp3s ripped from my cd collection at work, over $10 speakers at very low
volumes (my office neighbors just don't share my enthusiasm for Sonic
Youth, Naked City, Last Exit, etc). Interestingly, this often works well
as a listening approach. The details are completely gone - only the
skeleton of the song remains. And i must admit, it's nice to have 1000+
songs from my own collection playing on shuffle. :}
Besides that, i'm back to playing guitar very heavily - i'm probably
averaging two hours or more a night now. And tomorrow night, i'm going to
a group lesson on African drumming with Marc Anderson, who played drums on
several Steve Tibbetts albums. And with luck, i may be able to get
individual lessons from him for my daughter.
- --
Dave Stagner <dstagner@talkware.net>
Universal Talkware Corporation
10 Second St. NE Suite 400, Minneapolis MN 55413
ph: 612-843-6749 fax: 612-843-6707
=========================================================================
From: "Phil Sieg" <psieg@nxs.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Was Quiet , now favorite recording ?
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 12:55:31 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n619
Well, some favorites today (subject to continual change) ;-):
"Laughin' to Keep from Cryin'": Lester Young, Roy Eldridge, Sweets Edison,
Oscar Peterson Trio w/Herb Ellis
"Ella and Louis": w/the OP trio and Ellis again
Beethoven - Archduke trio: Thibaud, Cortot & Casals
Bach - WTC: Edwin Fischer, piano
Shoshtakovich- Sym 9: Kondrashin/MPO
"Ellington Indigos"
Phil
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Coleman" <ecoleman@whidbey.net>
To: "Hugh R Dean" <aspen@alphalink.com.au>; "Joenet"
<sound@deliverator.io.com>
Sent: Monday, 07 August, 2000 00.37
Subject: [JN] Was Quiet , now favorite recording ?
> Hey Joes, since it is soooo quiet , I was wondering what are some of your
> favorite recordings. They don't have to be popular , or even recorded
real
> well , just a personal favorite . Mine ? um , Bob Dylan live 1966 , I
love
> the acoustic for its intimate , personal feel. I love the electric for its
> edge and in your face atitude (well , at least in '66 it was !) . Yours
?
> ............
>
=========================================================================
From: "Andy Evans" <arts.psychology@cwcom.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Was Quiet , now favorite recording ?
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 18:16:17 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n619
Like Dave Stagner I'm a musician - conservatoire trained but mainly jazz
(double bass and piano). Was pro, but now play little, so more time fot
Hi-Fi. My collection is vast, and mainly LPs. I''l include some of the more
popular items I come back to again and again with great pleasure.
Steely Dan - Aja, Gaucho, Nightfly, Two against Nature
Joni Mitchell - Hissing of Summer Lawns, Court and Spark
Taj Mahal - " The Real Thing" Live with four tubas. This HAS to be heard!
Miles Davis - The Gil Evans CDs, Quiet Nights, Porgy, Miles Ahead
Ahmad Jamal - anything, all early recordings and later trios like The
Awakening, Poinciana - At the Top Revisited
Clifford Jordan - Live "Magic in Munich", Glass Bead Game
Cedar Walton - Eastern Rebellion
Coltrane - Plays Ballads
Grant Green and Larry Young - anything
Bill Evans - anything
Tony Bennett - with Bill Evans, absolutely gorgeous and wonderful sound
Donny Hathaway - Live
Lou Rawls - At Last
Ray Charles - any collection of greatest hits
Various tracks by Don Preston (It's My Pleasure) Dr John, George Duke, Randy
Newman
As you can see, I reside on the soulful side of town......
=========================================================================
From: "Paul@13E1.com" <triode@bow-tie.org.uk>
Subject: Re: [JN] Was Quiet , now favorite recording ?
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 2000 18:57:49 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n619
English Music (including A Simple Symphony) conducted by Benjamin Britten at
theSnape Maltings in1969 Decca SXL 6405.
Oh and Simon Preston performing Messiaen's La Nativitedu Seigneur at
Westminster Abbey on Argo ZRG 5447. There's real bass on this one (down to
27.5Hz!)
Paul Leclercq
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Coleman <ecoleman@whidbey.net>
To: Hugh R Dean <aspen@alphalink.com.au>; Joenet <sound@deliverator.io.com>
Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 5:37 AM
Subject: [JN] Was Quiet , now favorite recording ?
> Hey Joes, since it is soooo quiet , I was wondering what are some of your
> favorite recordings. They don't have to be popular , or even recorded
real
> well , just a personal favorite . Mine ? um , Bob Dylan live 1966 , I
love
> the acoustic for its intimate , personal feel. I love the electric for its
> edge and in your face atitude (well , at least in '66 it was !) . Yours
?
> ............
>
>
=========================================================================
From: "Henry Platt" <hnplatt@massed.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Was Quiet , now favorite recording ?
Date: Mon, 07 Aug 2000 17:00:41 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n620
I Love Duke Jordan too. Just about anything he recorded on Steeplechase LP
(Danish) is fantastic!
> Bill Evans - anything
=========================================================================
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rn_Aaholm?= <bjorn@vt52.com>
Subject: SV: [JN] Was Quiet , now favorite recording ?
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2000 00:17:11 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n621
> 3. Ben Harper--Welcome to the Cruel World
> 4. Ella Fitzgerald and Louis Armstrong--Ella and Louis
I'll second those and add:
Lisa Ekdahl - Bortom det Blå (BMG Sweden/RCA 74321 51994 2)
regards,
Bjørn Aaholm
=========================================================================
From: Ted.Riesz@isr.gov.au
Subject: [JN] Was RDH4 on eBay - Have a spare for swap or sale
Date: Tue, 6 Apr 1999 10:01:05 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n110
Hi
I have a spare copy in good condition which I would be prepared to
swap for other books, tubes etc or sell.
Ted Riesz
=========================================================================
From: Tim Reese <tgrmail@nmr.MGH.harvard.EDU>
Subject: was Re:[JN] Re: Phonos, now shunt reg speculation
Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 09:43:16 -0500 (EST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n430
supra@cantech.net.au wrote
>And I didn't get one reply for a folder on the xdrive containing tube shunt
>regulators- they really are scarce but why???
I did a little research looking at old papers re regulator circuits about
two years ago... indeed, the shunt tube regulator seems to have been
experimented with around 1935 IIRC, but the only circuits that I came
across sent the entire shunt current through a VR tube to ground, using
the VR tube as both the shunt path and the voltage reference. The articles
claimed, when a comparison was given, that the stability of the series
regulator was better (ie a lower output impedance) again based on what I
remember about these articles.
I've wondered about the no load performance of the shunt regs and how that
might affect their suitability for general purpose (ie lab) supplies. It
seems that when a series reg has no load, the voltage will rise but the
pass tubes go into cutoff, dissipating little power in a happy idle
state. When a shunt reg has no load, the pass tube(s) go into full
conduction trying to regulate the voltage by sinking the entire operating
current to ground. Indeed, it could be a difficult problem to protect
against overload and not also protect against no load (ie pop the fuse
with no load) in a shunt regulator design. This could be problematic in
addition to the heat burden imposed by the supposed inefficiency of the
shunt supply (I'm not convinced this is so bad ... isn't it just a
tradeoff between current and voltage headroom, with the same power
rqmt?).
One line of reasoning why shunt supplies could be superior to series
supplies is the sink/source symmetry of shunt supplies is better than
series supplies, ie series supplies have an asymmetric output impedance
with voltage sign. If this is true, what would prevent a differential
series supply rather than a single-ended one as is usual? Wouldn't that
have superior symmetry to either SE series or shunt regulators?
To those of you that replied re my previous offer of Philips and RadLab
papers on tube regs, I'm working on it ... I hope to get these posted on
my web site in the next few weeks.
jm2cw tr
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
Visit http://www.nmr.MGH.harvard.edu/~reese MRI, tube audio, reptiles
Tim Reese, MGH NMR Center reese@nmr.MGH.harvard.edu
=========================================================================
From: Torsten.Loesch@enhar-ha.nthames.nhs.uk
Subject: Re: [JN] Was Second-hand (cheap) tube pre and power amp ADVICE now radfor d
Date: 25 Aug 1999 11:19:46 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n262
Hi Folks,
Just to add a few little things of my own.
I think Radfords, Dynaco ST70's and Citation 5's are all ideal buy's because their Iron is First-Rat
e. I would not suggest modifications, but rather to be radical and replache the entiere Circuit.
Just use a pair of EL34 (or KT88 or Similar) in the Output Stage wired as Triodes (or stick a pair o
f 2A3's or 300B's in there). Use an unbypassed Cathode Resistor, somewhere around 270 to 330 Ohm. Yo
u could use a somewhat smaller Resitor and partial negative Gridbias too. Or a Constant Current-Sour
ce instead of the Resistor.
Then design a very simple, SE Style Drive Stage. My personal (as yet untried) favourite would be a 4
17A with about 15k - 20k Anode Resistor, directcoupled to a 6S4A as Split Load Phase-Inverted with a
bout 5.1k to 7.5k Resistors as load. With about 450V +B all Voltages fall neatly into place, drive-i
mpedances to the output valves are low and the whole circuit should sound very "single-ended"....
An alternative would be to use a 6072 in SRPP with 2k Cathode Resistors and about 250V - 270V on Top
, direct-coupled to a paralleled 5687 as split load inverter with 12k load resistors. This should gi
ve a good deal of "Kondo" Sound to the mix.
The Circuit is very simple, has only one Coupling Capacitor, the only truely balanced Phase-Splitter
apart from apart from a well wound transformer and can manage without any Cathode bypass Capacitors
.
Then simply soup up the powersupply as much as possible with Polypropylen or Paper in Oil Capacitors
as well as chokes and be done.
Depending upon Output Valves and +B this should be good for 12W - 20W Push Pull of the better kind.
Using Triode wired Pentodes in the output stage will give loads of 2nd harmonics that will cancel an
d only modest 3rd (which will add) while a pair of 2A3's will likely not go above 8W while a 300B Un
it could easily reach 20W....
Anyway, that would be MY personal take to make best use of the excellent transformers in either Desi
gn.
But then, what I do know about Push-Pull (apart from the fact that I don't like it much).
For preamplifiers I guess the best choice is to buy one of the 1970's intergrated Amplifiers that lo
ok a lot like Marantz M7 Preamp (Luxman build quite a few of these) in broken condition and throw th
e innards out. Then put your own favourite circuit in there. An example of such a job from Japan is
here:
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~UP2J-KNST/tb-amp1p.htm
This way you get classic looks and pretty much the best sound available on a budget.
My experience with a variety of "classic" Valve Amplifier (and even more so preamplifiers) is that t
hey are way to compromised circuitwise to be worth considering in stock (or even upgraded) condition
. A radical re-build can however get out the sound that is waiting to be let out. And the list does
include Radford, Michealson TVA-100, Quad 2 and Leaks. Yoy would not catch me listeneing to any of t
hem in their stock form given any choice.
Ciao Thorsten
=========================================================================
From: "Riesz, Ted - PETFISH" <Ted.Riesz@isr.gov.au>
Subject: [JN] Was Second-hand (cheap) tube pre and power amp ADVICE now radfor d
Date: Wed, 25 Aug 1999 12:29:11 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n262
snip
Guido wrote in response to Dragos >Radford STA15 or STA25 (needs little more
mods)
Guido, could you give us an idea of what mods you would suggest for the
Radfords
Regards
Ted Riesz (owner of a STA15)
PS I would endorse Guido's views on the Leaks. Look for TL12+, St20 or St50.
The original TL12's are rarer and thus highly collectable and getting quite
expensive.
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: [JN] WAS ST-70 Question NOW Most UNDERrated tube?
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 21:29:48 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n884
Okay, some folks think the ST-70 is the most overrated piece of tube gear.
I don't agree (because I think it was remarkable for the money, and the Van
Alstine mod mostly fixes the fuzzy-boomy bass problem), but I'd like to
hear answers to this one: What are the best but overlooked / forgotten /
underrated vacuum tubes?
I guess Tim de Paravicini gets credit for making the EL-509 / 6KG6 known to
some audiophiles, and Matt Kanma's piece on the low distortion of the
common 6SN7 was cool. 5BC3 is a rarely-used rectifier, but looks cool. I
think 3DG4 is also very beefy-looking, and can handle a lot of current. Too
bad both are directly heated.
How about 12AX7 for most OVERrated tube?
- --Rick
=========================================================================
From: ToobWiz@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] WAS ST-70 Question NOW Most UNDERrated tube?
Date: Sat, 12 May 2001 22:29:46 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n884
6CK4
=========================================================================
From: "P de R. Leclercq" <triode@freenetname.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [JN] WAS ST-70 Question NOW Most UNDERrated tube?
Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 03:06:47 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n884
Hello.
First I would very much like to see Mr Kamma's piece on the 6SN7; I'd be
grateful if someone could send it to me.
Overlooked & underrated types? Here's some to start the ball rolling: 813,
13E1, 12E1, 6146, D3A, E282F, 7150.
I know a few people play with 813 and also that there are one or two amps
around using 13E1s, but on the whole, the non-stop stress on the 300B is
tedious - I am sorry to say that I wouldn't use 300Bs even if they did the
washing-up as well as playing good music - and God only knows that the
washing-up needs doing!
Paul
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
Behalf Of Rick Francis
Sent: 12 May 2001 18:30
To: Timo Christ
Cc: sound@lists.io.com
Subject: [JN] WAS ST-70 Question NOW Most UNDERrated tube?
Okay, some folks think the ST-70 is the most overrated piece of tube gear.
I don't agree (because I think it was remarkable for the money, and the Van
Alstine mod mostly fixes the fuzzy-boomy bass problem), but I'd like to
hear answers to this one: What are the best but overlooked / forgotten /
underrated vacuum tubes?
I guess Tim de Paravicini gets credit for making the EL-509 / 6KG6 known to
some audiophiles, and Matt Kanma's piece on the low distortion of the
common 6SN7 was cool. 5BC3 is a rarely-used rectifier, but looks cool. I
think 3DG4 is also very beefy-looking, and can handle a lot of current. Too
bad both are directly heated.
How about 12AX7 for most OVERrated tube?
- --Rick
=========================================================================
From: Torsten.Loesch@enhar-ha.nthames.nhs.uk
Subject: [JN] Re: Was Strange happening with CD, now LPs...
Date: 18 Feb 1999 17:45:21 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n050
Hi there,
> I would like to comment on the LP sound, as I have been listening to LPs
> for much longer time.
While I have not been around much in theold Days, I have many records from
anywhere between the 1950's and 1990's. I can say that my experiences mirror
Andrejs.
Some of the late 60's early 70's Recordings of Classical music I have are
breathtaking. I never heard anything better Vinyl or CD. Live Orchestras are
a different story, but apart from that....
I have quite a few current LP's that where made from high resolution / High
Sample rate Masters. They too are very good, but not quite as good. I put
that down to all thsi multitracking that goes on these Day's....
If God would have wanted you to use a 16-Track recorder he'd given you 16
Ears... ;-)
Later Thorsten
=========================================================================
From: Andrej Deticek <andrej.deticek@siol.net>
Subject: [JN] Was Strange happening with CD, now LPs...
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 1999 18:11:33 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n050
Derrick Beckner wrote:
>
> In general, to my ears, most anything made before about 1992 sounds better
> on LP, but the gap is no longer there, at least with consumer grade, rock
> recordings.
>
This is no reply to above statement. I can't comment on pre 1992s CD, as
I have been buying and listening at home to CDs only for some 7 years. I
have a lot more LPs, than CDs...
I would like to comment on the LP sound, as I have been listening to LPs
for much longer time.
I have noticed a "tremendous" difference in the quality of recordings on
LPs somewhere around 1973, when most recording companies changed over
from well developed tubed gear to SS stuff ! Those first years, on the
average for some 4 years, in particularly, are marked for really bad
recordings... The years of introducing SS gear, of course, vary with
different companies (and countries, like they changed over to SS much
later in USSR, India, etc.).
As the SS stuff in studios got better, LP sound slowly improved. Then,
again, I could notice a difference in sound of LPs to worse, somewhere
around 1981, when the studios introduced digital recording and made
digital to analog transfer to LPs. This was a much less pronounced
change in the sound than the one around 1973, with the transfer from
tube to SS, however. The difference was smaller and varied with
different companies, but one can recognize the difference with the
recordings of one company from that period. Again, the year of this
introduction depends on the company, country,etc.
I personally feel very sorry for the early period of SS in LP
recordings, because I have quite a few recordings of performers, mostly
on LPs,but also a few CD reissues, whom I really enjoy very much, but
have to listen to the mediocre recording sound of that period.
Perhaps there have been comments observing above, but I haven't noticed
them. Maybe there are some of you who would have more of a studio
insider's knowledge of these two periods of changing over from one
"technology" to the other.
Regards,
Andrej Deticel
=========================================================================
From: Tom Ronan <tronan@enteract.com>
Subject: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 01:15:43 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n421
>
>
>Want my one tube amp schematic?
>
>Happy Ears!
>Al B^}
Does anyone have that really cool 1 tube phono schematic out there?
It's a single pentode, an EF810 or something like that, with a feedback
based eq network. Nothing fancy, but I bet it would be fun to throw in a
little integrated amp I'm building for a friend.
I believe the schematic was from an MJ, but I originally found it
(somewhere) on the web.
I would LOVE to get a copy again!
Thanks,
Tom
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Tom Ronan 1045 W. Montana Chicago, IL 60614
Lowther America http://www.lowther-america.com
26 Preamp & Hedlund Horns http://www.enteract.com/~tronan
=========================================================================
From: Tom Ronan <tronan@enteract.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 06:01:26 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n421
At 11:42 AM 1/28/00 +0000, you wrote:
>Hi Tom,
>
>>It's a single pentode, an EF810 or something like that, with a feedback
>>based eq network. Nothing fancy, but I bet it would be fun to throw in a
>>little integrated amp I'm building for a friend.
>>
>>I believe the schematic was from an MJ, but I originally found it
>>(somewhere) on the web.
>
>Is it that one?
>
>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Campus/9616/preamp/fb-e180f.gif
yeah!
That's it!
Thanks. Anyone built it? Or anyone interested, besides me?
Tom
- ---------------------------------------------------------
Tom Ronan 1045 W. Montana Chicago, IL 60614
Lowther America http://www.lowther-america.com
26 Preamp & Hedlund Horns http://www.enteract.com/~tronan
=========================================================================
From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:42:24 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n421
Hi Tom,
>It's a single pentode, an EF810 or something like that, with a feedback
>based eq network. Nothing fancy, but I bet it would be fun to throw in a
>little integrated amp I'm building for a friend.
>
>I believe the schematic was from an MJ, but I originally found it
>(somewhere) on the web.
Is it that one?
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Campus/9616/preamp/fb-e180f.gif
Ciao Thorsten
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: StepHydro@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 07:17:40 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n422
In a message dated 01/28/2000 7:<BR05:<BR27 AM
Eastern Standard , tronan@enteract.com writes
> >Is it that one?
> >
> >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Campus/9616/preamp/fb-e180f.gif
Fascinating schematic. Anyone ever used one? Sound?
Cheers/Carron
=========================================================================
From: David Barnett <davidbarnett@aristotle.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 12:14:47 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n422
On Fri, 28 Jan 2000 11:42:24 GMT, "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Is it that one?
What's the 1KHz gain for this phono preamp?
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 04:49:26 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n424
At 6:01 AM -0600 1/28/00, Tom Ronan wrote:
>At 11:42 AM 1/28/00 +0000, you wrote:
>>Hi Tom,
>>
>>>It's a single pentode, an EF810 or something like that, with a
>>>feedback based eq network. Nothing fancy, but I bet it would be
>>>fun to throw in a little integrated amp I'm building for a friend.
>>>
>>>I believe the schematic was from an MJ, but I originally found it
>>>(somewhere) on the web.
>>
>>Is it that one?
>>
>>http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Campus/9616/preamp/fb-e180f.gif
>
>
>
>yeah!
>
>That's it!
>
>Thanks. Anyone built it? Or anyone interested, besides me?
I am!
- -------
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
=========================================================================
From: StepHydro@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:09:00 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n424
In a message dated 01/29/2000 5:<BR55:<BR09 AM
Eastern Standard , groverg@postoffice.att.net writes:
> >Thanks. Anyone built it? Or anyone interested, besides me?
>
> I am!
As am I.
Note that the tubes are e180f, much less expensive than e810f. Also called
6688.
I have a couple of pairs on order as a friend of mine finally wants to try
DIY and I'm going to help him with this one.
Cheers/Carron
=========================================================================
From: Chris Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 08:14:56 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n424
Aren't the transconductance and bias points similar for the 6688 and the
SV83??? Maybe the SV83 would sub into the circuit and sound real nice?
Chris
StepHydro@aol.com wrote:
> In a message dated 01/29/2000 5:<BR55:<BR09 AM
> Eastern Standard , groverg@postoffice.att.net writes:
>
> > >Thanks. Anyone built it? Or anyone interested, besides me?
> >
> > I am!
>
> As am I.
>
> Note that the tubes are e180f, much less expensive than e810f. Also called
> 6688.
>
> I have a couple of pairs on order as a friend of mine finally wants to try
> DIY and I'm going to help him with this one.
>
> Cheers/Carron
=========================================================================
From: StepHydro@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 09:24:58 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n424
In a message dated 01/29/2000 9:<BR18:<BR23 AM Eastern Standard ,
n9zes@execpc.com writes:
> Aren't the transconductance and bias points similar for the 6688 and the
> SV83??? Maybe the SV83 would sub into the circuit and sound real nice?
Chris,
Don't know. It would be nice to have a NNS source for the tube.
Cheers/Don Carron
=========================================================================
From: David Barnett <davidbarnett@aristotle.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 11:42:53 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n424
On Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:19:57 GMT, "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>>What's the 1KHz gain for this phono preamp?
>
>As a rough estimate, around 26db....
Ick! That's barely useable. This thing needs another gain stage on
the front end.
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: tube@jump.net
Subject: Re: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 13:35:20 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n424
StepHydro@aol.com wrote:
> [Snip]
> Note that the tubes are e180f, much less expensive than e810f. Also called
> 6688.
>
> I have a couple of pairs on order as a friend of mine finally wants to try
> DIY and I'm going to help him with this one.
>
> Cheers/Carron
"Tube Lore" states the the 6688/E180f was suggested as a replacement
for the WE 404A/5847, so the WE tube might also be a good candidate.
In the GE Handbook I se that at 13 mA, the 6688 has 16.5 mmhos, the
404A/5847 just 12.5 mmhos, so the 404A might be a bit wimpy here.
Also for Al Marcy, I would like to see your one-tube SV-83 schematic.
If you already posted it somewhere, I missed it!
And for those of us who are a bit slow, we are talking about one-tube
amps, right? As in, preamp to one-tube amp to tweeter or speaker or
whatever? I think those are really interesting (first read about them
in "Valve" with the 437A tube). Just browsing through the GE manual,
it at least looks like there are actually quite a few tubes that
could do the job, very high gm and high mu being the key.
Assuming that we use a transformer which is about 4 times the tube's
plate resistance--e.g., a 3200 ohm trans for a 2A3 tube with its 800
ohm Rp or plate resistance--then we can determine the Volts rms in
needed to get 1W out with the formula, [2.5 *sqr(Rp)]/mu.
For example, the 6688, triode connected at 20 mA has an Rp of about
1700 ohms, and a mu of about 48 (curves given to me by David Crittle
when I bought some 12SX7's, 6688's, and 7788's from him a couple of
years ago). The square root of 1700 is about 41.25, so to get one
watt out of this tube using a 6800 ohm transformer (6800 = 4*1700),
we need (2.5 * 41.25)/48 = 2.15 Vrms in.
The 7788/E810f, with Rp = 980 ohms @ 35 mA and mu = 60, needs just
1.30 Vrms for 1W out with a 4000 ohm transformer. By the way, if the
transformer is more than 4 times the Rp, you need more volts in, and
vice versa. Also, paralleling tubes reduces the volts in needed to
get 1W out by the square root of the number of tubes. Using 2 tubes,
therefore, will reduce the volts in by 1.414, while using 4 tubes
will reduce the volts in by a factor of 2.
There are some interesting possibilities out there. A few are:
Vin Rp Wp Wout Type
6AG9/6AL9 2.07 1.63K 9.0* 1.80 Pentode
6AK10 2.36 2.50K 6.0 1.20 Triple-triode
6FQ5A 1.90 3.15K 5.0 1.00 Double-triode
6HK5 1.67 2.50K 4.6 0.92 Double-triode
6HQ5 1.67 2.70K 5.0 1.00 Double-triode
6J4 2.16 2.25K 4.5 0.90 Double-triode
6KN8 2.08 1.40K 4.4 0.88 Double-triode
6MN8 2.14 1.83K 9.0 1.80 Triple-triode
7KY6/11HM7 2.27 1.35K 6.8* 1.36 Pentode
12HG7 2.07 1.42K 6.5* 1.30 Pentode
417A/5842 2.46 1.80K 4.0 0.80 Triode
417A * 2 1.74 0.90K 8.0 1.60 Two 417A's in parallel
437A 1.58 1.00K 7.0 1.40 Triode
6442 2.75 3.03K 8.0 1.60 Planar triode
6688 * 2 1.52 0.85K 7.4 1.48 Two 6688's in parallel
7788 1.30 0.98K 5.8 1.16 Pentode
7911 2.08 2.32K 6.5 1.30 Planar triode
7913 1.25 2.50K 5.5 1.10 Planar triode
Wp = plate + screen dissipation. An * next to it means that the plate
dissipation is limited by the screen to values lower than what the
plate can actually handle. All pentodes are triode connected.
Wout = Wp/5, a normal, conservative estimate for how much power you
can actually get out of a single-ended class-A1 design. In all cases,
if a tube is a double or triple triode, all sections are used in
parallel. This is cheating, of course, as the examples using two
417A's or two 6688's clearly show, but since they are in a single
tube envelope, I threw them in anyway. Using two tubes in parallel
would add many more tubes to this list.
And I don't have characteristics for the SV-83!
Phil
=========================================================================
From: "T. Loesch" <ezee_e@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2000 16:19:57 GMT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n424
Hi there,
>What's the 1KHz gain for this phono preamp?
As a rough estimate, around 26db....
Later Thorsten
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
=========================================================================
From: "Darryl Lock" <dklock@ieee.org>
Subject: RE: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 07:33:27 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n424
> > Note that the tubes are e180f, much less expensive than e810f.
> Also called
> > 6688.
> >
> > I have a couple of pairs on order as a friend of mine finally
> wants to try
> > DIY and I'm going to help him with this one.
> >
I just looked in my junk box and found 6 of them!!! 5 Telefunkens and 1
Valvo. I really like finding uses for these old gold pin tubes. Guess
this is one I have to try!!
BTW: What sort of output impedance will this circuit drive?
Darryl
=========================================================================
From: tube@jump.net
Subject: Re: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:00:30 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n425
Darryl Lock wrote:
> >
> > E180F makes an excellent triode; mu is about 50 and if you run decent
> > current, gm is about 18. Ra is therefore about 2.7k.
> >
>
> Other nice looking gold pin tubes in my 'junk box' include some from
> Telefunken labelled 'D3a' which is an odd looking number. One of them is
> labelled 'D3-a' and underneath '92009'. Does anyone know what they are?
>
> Darryl
The D3a is a 7721. Kurt sent me a couple of samples of these a while
back, and assured me that they were GREAT tubes! (The E280f is the
7722.) At a guesstimate, the 7721/D3a has a triode-connected Rp of 2K
along with a gm of 35 mmhos (at real operating values), giving it a
mu of 70! As a one tube amp, its total plate/screen dissipation would
be about 4.75W, power out about 1.15W, and it would need 1.60 Vrms to
put out 1W. The gm value is probably pretty accurate, the Rp value is
probably good to 10% or so.
I remember seeing these years ago in the AES catalog for about $3
each, and I kept thinking, gee, I'll have to get a bunch of those
some day. That day has, of course, long since gone ...
Phil
=========================================================================
From: David Crittle <retrovox@bigpond.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 09:01:01 +1100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n425
> >Is it that one?
> >
> >http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Campus/9616/preamp/fb-e180f.gif
>>Aren't the transconductance and bias points similar for the 6688 and the
>> SV83??? Maybe the SV83 would sub into the circuit and sound real nice?>
>
>Don't know. It would be nice to have a NNS source for the tube.
>
No NNS, but I have some NOS Mullard CV3998 / E180F at US$5 each. See a pic at:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=149682&a=1102709&p=14296561
David
retrovox@bigpond.com
=========================================================================
From: "Darryl Lock" <dklock@ieee.org>
Subject: RE: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 13:37:09 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n425
>
> E180F makes an excellent triode; mu is about 50 and if you run decent
> current, gm is about 18. Ra is therefore about 2.7k.
>
> I have tried these and they do sound very good. They were used in TV
> cameras.
>
> As for your question about driving output imedance, I don't understand
>
> What do you wish to do? Given an anode load of 15k, if the ra at your
> operating point is 3k for eaxample, then the output resistance
> will be 2,5k,
> which is low for an "anode follower".
The RIAA preamp circuit uses an anode load of 100k ( a lot more than 15k)
and the feedback circuit is taken off after the 0.22uF coupling cap that
comes off the anode. There is also a 4.7 M resistor to ground from this
point, so I was wondering whether the input impedance of the following stage
would effect it? Maybe I should use another stage to buffer it.
>
> Tell me more, I've been plugging these for some time, although you should
> also look at EF184, another pentode, which, triode-strapped performs even
> better with mu of 60.
Well how about that... I have 15 of those sitting in my junk box as well,
and they're all Telefunkens. Thanks for the tip.
>Beware though, the manufacturers did not state what
> Ca-g would be in triode mode. The only time I've seen this specified is
> with 6AU6 - and Ca-g is about 3pf from memory, which is quite high enough
> with mu of 36 or so. I have tried EF184 though, and it sounded good.
>
> There are thousands here in England; they are very cheap; consequently, it
> is difficult to justify the investment in E180F at about eight times the
> price!
>
Well if I had to buy them, yes I agree.
> Regards,
> Paul
> triode@bow-tie.org.uk
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Darryl Lock <dklock@ieee.org>
> To: Chris Beck <n9zes@execpc.com>; <StepHydro@aol.com>
> Cc: <groverg@postoffice.att.net>; <tronan@enteract.com>;
> <sound@lists.io.com>
> Sent: Saturday, January 29, 2000 9:33 PM
> Subject: RE: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
>
>
> >
> > > > Note that the tubes are e180f, much less expensive than e810f.
> > > Also called
> > > > 6688.
> > > >
> > > > I have a couple of pairs on order as a friend of mine finally
> > > wants to try
> > > > DIY and I'm going to help him with this one.
> > > >
> >
> >
> > I just looked in my junk box and found 6 of them!!! 5 Telefunkens and 1
> > Valvo. I really like finding uses for these old gold pin tubes. Guess
> > this is one I have to try!!
> >
> > BTW: What sort of output impedance will this circuit drive?
> >
> >
> > Darryl
> >
> >
>
=========================================================================
From: "Darryl Lock" <dklock@ieee.org>
Subject: RE: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Sun, 30 Jan 2000 19:17:20 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n425
>
> E180F makes an excellent triode; mu is about 50 and if you run decent
> current, gm is about 18. Ra is therefore about 2.7k.
>
Other nice looking gold pin tubes in my 'junk box' include some from
Telefunken labelled 'D3a' which is an odd looking number. One of them is
labelled 'D3-a' and underneath '92009'. Does anyone know what they are?
Darryl
=========================================================================
From: "Darryl Lock" <dklock@ieee.org>
Subject: RE: [JN] was Svetlana SV-83 now 1 tube phono?
Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2000 07:17:58 +1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n426
>
> The D3a is a 7721. Kurt sent me a couple of samples of these a while
> back, and assured me that they were GREAT tubes! (The E280f is the
> 7722.) At a guesstimate, the 7721/D3a has a triode-connected Rp of 2K
> along with a gm of 35 mmhos (at real operating values), giving it a
> mu of 70! As a one tube amp, its total plate/screen dissipation would
> be about 4.75W, power out about 1.15W, and it would need 1.60 Vrms to
> put out 1W. The gm value is probably pretty accurate, the Rp value is
> probably good to 10% or so.
>
> I remember seeing these years ago in the AES catalog for about $3
> each, and I kept thinking, gee, I'll have to get a bunch of those
> some day. That day has, of course, long since gone ...
>
A very interesting valve. Looking at the construction, it appears to have a
dual anode. There are two rectangular black plates parallel to each other.
Looking at the valve from the side, you can see the grids sitting between
these plates quite easily. The plates are about 1cm apart!
Darryl
=========================================================================
From: SBench@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] WAS ..transformer WAS.. take tubes Now Try "diode" bias
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 00:19:33 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n672
In a message dated 00-09-25 22:33:41 EDT, rfrancis@glasscity.net writes:
> >[tubegarden] A high vacuum diode works wonders an LED cannot imagine.
> >
> > I have a 6W4GTA under my SV83 driving a 316A thru ElectaPrint IT.
> >
>[rick] If anyone has a use for 6W4s, I have a bunch I would otherwise toss.
Interestingly, for those who have not yet tried it, DO try "diode" cathode
biasing. Provides some interesting sonic signature.
(You might want to keep a few of those 6W4s).
Best Regards,
Steve
=========================================================================
From: "Michael (Mick)Maloney" <supra@cantech.net.au>
Subject: [JN] Watch out Michael Jackson-I've got a monkey too.
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 09:50:07 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n587
Took a couple hours off this afternoon to turn my 6sN7-CC-5687-TC-50 SE
into a 6SN7-CC-5687-plate choke loaded DC-6B4G SE "monkey"
All the voltages sat at the calculations, better freq response 30-30Khz ,
about 3 watts into 3K load- nice square wave at 1Khz and ok at 10kHz.
Used full range into my three way passive crossover speakers I didn't think
there was a great deal of difference, apart from the obvious different
output tube-but used as active drivers for the midrange Edgarhorns I was
very impressed- first class resolution and very clear sounding- the minimal
parts count really counts in the midrange, opening up the soundstaging and
imaging.
I was listening to King Crimson's Island and realized for the first time
how wacked the trumpet player must have been to make so many technique
mistakes.
Very worthwhile modification and a few other versions to try later on.
Mick
=========================================================================
From: "phclark" <phclark@uswest.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Watch out Michael Jackson-I've got a monkey too.
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:26:31 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n588
It's "chill 'ren."
Peter C
- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Ellen Oler" <ellenoler@earthlink.net>
To: <supra@cantech.net.au>; "Joenet" <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 21, 2000 5:42 PM
Subject: Re : [JN] Watch out Michael Jackson-I've got a monkey too.
> I am completely unable to restrain myself here. I hope you'll understand.
>
> "Lom Di Lom Di Li, Lom Di Lom Di Li-I-Hi
> It's really somethin' to see, cat named Mickey's doin' that monkey
> Do Mickey's Monkey children, do Mickey's Monkey children"
>
> Smokey Robinson & The Miracles, "Mickey's Monkey."
>
> -j
>
=========================================================================
From: "Ellen Oler" <ellenoler@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re : [JN] Watch out Michael Jackson-I've got a monkey too.
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 20:42:31 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n588
I am completely unable to restrain myself here. I hope you'll understand.
"Lom Di Lom Di Li, Lom Di Lom Di Li-I-Hi
It's really somethin' to see, cat named Mickey's doin' that monkey
Do Mickey's Monkey children, do Mickey's Monkey children"
Smokey Robinson & The Miracles, "Mickey's Monkey."
- -j
=========================================================================
From: "Ellen Oler" <ellenoler@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Watch out Michael Jackson-I've got a monkey too.
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 06:27:50 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n588
phclark wrote :
>It's "chill 'ren."
>
>Peter C
That's absolutely true. It's also "see-ee-hee," for that matter.
- -j, a/k/a "The Pinnacle Of Soul" - just ask Art Dudley!
"lom di lom di li-i-hi"
=========================================================================
From: "Brian Clark" <bdclark@talk21.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Watch out Michael Jackson-I've got a monkey too.
Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 16:00:43 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n588
Hello Michael
Good to hear you've tried a monkey and liked what you heard. Have you a Half
Monkey or a Full Monkey?
Brian.
=========================================================================
From: "Michael (Mick)Maloney" <supra@cantech.net.au>
Subject: Re: [JN] Watch out Michael Jackson-I've got a monkey too.
Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 18:28:57 +0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n589
At 04:00 22/06/00 +0100, you wrote:
>Hello Michael
>
>Good to hear you've tried a monkey and liked what you heard. Have you a Half
>Monkey or a Full Monkey?
>
>Brian.
>
It's basically the same as the Electra print 6AQ8-300B(on xdrive) although
I'm using 5687 and 6B4G with a 6SN7 cap coupled on the front as I need the
gain. Much lower B+ voltages to give me 250V plate to cathode across the 6B4G
Maybe I'll get the time on the weekend to ty the 5687 bias into a longer
resistor string off the 6B4G's cathode a la Thorstens monkey but I'm happy
with it as it is at the moment. In fact I'm even more impressed than I was
a few days ago and I'm not the greatest fan of the 5687-I had to use it to
fit in with the plate choke (half of an interstage) and voltage/current
requirements(didn't want to push more than 10ma through choke)so maybe with
a different driver it may even be better although it sounds like there is
some nice synergy going on here with 5687,6B4G.
Mick
=========================================================================
From: "Epstein, Jeremy" <JEpstein@ndbcap.com>
Subject: [JN] Wavelength Gemini reviewed in Stereophile
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:32:53 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n873
I read this review with interest - just by getting a hold of a DHT amp, the
SP reviewer embarked on an odyssey of tube-rolling and modding, all the
while enjoying high-efficency horns. A Stereophile magazine reviewer!
There may be hope for them yet.
- -j
=========================================
Jeremy Epstein........jepstein@ndbcap.com
=========================================
=========================================================================
From: "Carter Hendricks" <carter@i1.net>
Subject: RE: [JN] Wavelength Gemini reviewed in Stereophile
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:07:49 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n874
Jeremy wrote:
> ... the SP reviewer embarked on an odyssey
> of tube-rolling and modding...
> There may be hope for them yet.
I don't think so.
I read the review, too, and I didn't learn
anything about Gordon's amp. The review wanders
here and there. Alot about some HiFi "feet."
Has the reviewer tried Ecco shoes? I think they're
very comfortable.
But there was a lot of worry about hum and a weak
explanation written by the reviewer, who didn't
understand what he was trying to explain.
Maybe, Gordon, you could tell us why they had their
problems [the equipment problems, not the neurotic
ones], and how they "fixed" them ??
--Carter
=========================================================================
From: "J. Gordon Rankin" <waudio@cinti.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Wavelength Gemini reviewed in Stereophile
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:21:41 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n874
>There may be hope for them yet.
Jeremy,
Yea right... Atkinson is still very much against us.
Gordon
=====> Wavelength Audio, ltd. <=====
mailto:waudio@cinti.net
mailto:wavelength@fuse.net
http://www.WavelengthAudio.com
ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
=========================================================================
From: STEVE CORNETT <SCORNETT@usagroup.com>
Subject: [JN] Wavelength phono stage
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 15:44:53 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n060
Hi, folks,
Anyone out there have anyexperience with this item?
TIA
Steve C.
=========================================================================
From: "Murray Leshner" <multi-volti@softhouse.com>
Subject: [JN] Wax removal, original cascode tubes
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 01:29:43 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n551
Typical waxes used are paraffin, so some polar solvent (hydrocarbon) I would
think would remove it (with some elbow grease). Paraffin is British-English
name for kerosene, so it might be good solvent for paraffin.
In picture-framing industry, a chemical used to remove various adhesives is
called Unseal...it's mostly heptane I think the MSDS sheet said. How about
"Goo-Gone or Oops:, from the painting industry.
Ceresin is some sort of plant-derived wax, but I don't know if it's still
used. Of course, "pitch" is also a hydrocarbon.
Valley & Wallaman would probably be a good place to see early/original
cascode circuits...mine is boxed up for move...someone else will have to
look.
Murray
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust Serv" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: [JN] WAY Off Topic
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 09:39:39 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n134
Dickshunairy Defunitions
arachnoleptic fit, n:
A frantic, dance-like series of contortions performed after
one accidentally walks through a spider web.
Beelzebug, n:
aka: Satan; in the form of a noisy, flying insect that gets into
one's bedroom at 3:00 AM and cannot bee exorcised.
bozone, n:
A dense substance that surrounds stupid people with the
effect that bright ideas fail to penetrate. The bozone half-life
has been determined to be somewhat variable but normally
exceeds the life span of the surrounded subject.
On not infrequent occasions, this substance has been observed
surrounding those of normal to extreme intelligence. Most commonly,
it causes such individuals the feel as though they are,
"Lost in the Bozone . . . . ".
Music lovers:
Please note that Commander Cody and The Lost
Planet Airmen have recorded an album by essentially
the same name.
cashtration, n:
The act of buying a house or vehicle that renders the subject
financially impotent for an indefinite period.
caterpallor, n:
The shade ones skin assumes after finding half a grub
in a fruit one is eating.
dickshunairy, n:
a woman who offhandedly or lightly refuses sex.
dopeler effect, n:
the tendency for poor ideas to seem smarter as they
approach one and stupider as they receed.
dopeful, adj:
an act of maintaining false hope
extraterrestaurant, n:
An eating place that leaves one feeling that one has
experienced alien alimentary technology.
Also known as an EaT-ery.
foreploy, n:
Any misrepresentation or outright lie about one's self
that leads to sex.
giraffiti, n:
vandalism spray-painted in uncommonly high places.
Grantartica, n:
The cold, isolated dwelling place of arts
companies without funding.
kinstipation, n:
A distressing inability to get rid of relatives who
unexpectedly come to visit.
lullabuoy, n:
An idea that keeps floating to the surface of one's mind,
preventing one from drifting off to sleep.
taterfamilias, n:
The head of the Potato Head family.
- ----------------------------------------------
Bill Perkins, PEARL Inc.
2528 19 St. S.W., Calgary, Ab.,
Canada T2T 4X3
Ph. 1 403 244 4434 Fx. 1 403 244 9026
=========================================================================
From: AnnaLogg@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] WAY Off Topic
Date: Wed, 28 Apr 1999 13:45:58 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n134
Definitely "Sniglets" type work . . .
Some more for the hopper -- received recently (The "Taterfamilias" and
"Giraffiti" apparently came from this list . . . ), causing a serious
laughisode (a particularly severe episode of extreme laughter):
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- --
The Washington Post recently invited readers to take any word from the
dictionary, alter it by adding, subtracting or changing one letter, and
supplying a new definition. Here are some winners:
______________________________________________________
Doltergeist: a spirit that haunts someplace stupid,
like your septic tank.
Sarchasm: the gulf between the author of sarcastic wit and the recipient
who doesn't get it.
Reintarnation: coming back to life as a hillbilly.
Innoculatté: to take coffee intravenously when you are running late.
Hipatitis: terminal coolness.
Dopeler effect: the tendency of poor ideas to seem smarter when they're
coming at you, and stupider when they're going away.
Taterfamilias: the head of the Potato Head family.
Guillozine: a magazine for executioners.
Giraffiti: vandalism spray-painted in very, very high places.
Karmageddon: It's like, when everybody is sending off all these really
bad vibes, right? And then, like, the Earth explodes and it's like, a
serious bummer.
Glibido: all talk and no action.
Intaxication: euphoria at getting a refund from the Internal Revenue
Service, which lasts until you realize it was your money to start with.
=========================================================================
From: Richard C Nevill <rnevill@is.dal.ca>
Subject: [JN] Way off topic, but could be useful
Date: Thu, 1 Apr 1999 11:20:10 -0400 (AST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n104
Hi gang,
The library I work for recently added these to databases to the web
page. Un fortunately the whole she-bang is down right now so you won't be
able
to get at them until probably tonight or tommorrow.
URL is www.library.dal.ca/kellogg
Opera del Vocabolario Italiano: includes texts of the early masters of
Italian literature like Dante, Petrarch, and Boccaccio, as well as
lesser-known and obscure texts by poets, merchants, and medieval
chroniclers. Contains 1,369 vernacular texts (16.4 million words) dated
prior to 1375.
Textes de Francais Ancien: A searchable database composed of
texts from the 12th - 15th centuries, digitized for the preparation of a
lemmatized database of Old French.
Cheers and enjoy the Easter weekend
Richard Nevill
=========================================================================
From: ALEXSCIFI@aol.com
Subject: [JN] Way OT -- Laptop sound quality???
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 09:16:03 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n523
Is there any significant differences in laptop sound quality?
Thanks.
Alex
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] Way OT -- Laptop sound quality???
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 17:34:30 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n523
At 09:16 17/04/2000 EDT, ALEXSCIFI@aol.com wrote:
>Is there any significant differences in laptop sound quality?
Yes
(had meetings in Frankfurt last week and heard lots of Labtops playing the
windows song, especially because of lots of crashes)
Guido
>Thanks.
>
>Alex
>
>
=========================================================================
From: Cuno Snoeren <c.snoeren@tip.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] Way OT -- Laptop sound quality???
Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 00:29:47 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n524
ALEXSCIFI@aol.com wrote:
>
> Is there any significant differences in laptop sound quality?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Alex
Well, I have a Yamaha sound-tool on my laptop, what gives you the
choise of sound for laptop, stand-alone etc.
And it makes my Toshiba laptop sound very well (for a laptop).
So the tool does even more then the laptop speakers to my ears.
Greetings, Cuno
http://www.triode.club.tip.nl
http://www.ariel.club.tip.nl
=========================================================================
From: ALEXSCIFI@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Way OT -- Laptop sound quality???
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:16:54 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n526
In a message dated 2000-04-19 3:31:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
tube@teleport.com writes:
> The Compaqs have "ported" speakers, and are far better than any other I
> have heard.
Also the Compaqs use JBL systems!!!
Compaq it is then!
Alex
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: [JN] Way OT -- Palm Pilot sound quality?
Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:33:59 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n526
Greets Jeets Neets!
OK. Subject is FARCE..
Just a brief update on the Henry Kloss Model Six. Put in a M&Ns Alpha 8 and a
Ratshack dynamic tweeter horn (40-1268). Stock Xover topology with parts
upgrade. Added six 0.5 inch ports, three on either side of tweeter.
Yes, we have no bananas!
Happy Ears!
Al B^}
=========================================================================
From: John Dahlman <jkdahlman@home.com>
Subject: [JN] way OT Physics + Beer = ?
Date: Wed, 5 Sep 2001 01:51:22 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n960
Hi all, this was passed on to me by a friend . Has nothing to do with audio.
Although he mentions dBa so, it has some audio worthiness.
John
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------------------------
Do you have a garage, shed, hut, yurt? Do you have lots of gadgets? Do you
have...
BEER? Yes to all three? Good! Then go to this site, and look what you
can do with them! <http://www.asciimation.co.nz/beer/>
The man who made this site is truly an evil genius.
=========================================================================
From: Joe Roberts <jroberts@io.com>
Subject: [JN] Ways to make SS diodes sound better?
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 10:48:20 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n891
Anybody got any hints on how to make solid state rectifiers sound
better?
I got a tip from Shishido a few years back on putting resistors in
series with the diodes to "de-Q" the setup. Got a somewhat more relaxed
sound with this technique (think I used 50 ohm ABs).
How about diodes in choke input filters....does that help?
Personally, I always thought the best way to improve the SS rectifier is
to chuck it and replace with a tube.
Back in the 80s when I was really crazy, I used NOS selenium rectifiers
whenever I could. They don't sell these at radio shack anymo'. Anybody
got any selenium full wavers in the junkbox?
Working on some miniaturized stuff that requires 1N4004 sized
rectifiers, so I'm interested.
Joe
=========================================================================
From: "PEARL Cust. Service" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Ways to make SS diodes sound better?
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:43:22 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n891
Hi Grover
I remember you writing about these before.
Where can I buy 100 or so for some rational price?
Do they come in "stout" versions like 1-1.5kPIV and 2-5A?
Thanks
Bill Perkins - PEARL, Inc.
>
> The sweetest SS rectifiers I've heard are cryo'ed HER105s. I haven't
> heard them un-cryo'ed but I'm about to order some and see. Maybe Bill
> Perkins can fix you up with some frozen ones. Adding carbon in series
> with othere types does have a smoothing effect, I've found, especially
> with UF400x types. 1N4xxx are hopeless to my ears--veiled and grungy.
> --
> Grover Gardner
> groverg@postoffice.att.net
> Visit my web site at http://home.att.net/~groverg/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
From: Joe Roberts <jroberts@io.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Ways to make SS diodes sound better?
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:01:33 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n891
>>I'm also interested in selenium rectifiers.. came across some old ones
>>at a job once, but never used them. What are the general characteristics
>>of these devices?
>This is old technology, I think the first ss rectifiers were selenium.
>You sometimes find them in old radios. Basically they are crap.
>Although they have relatively high resistance their reverse leakage is
>poor.
This is all true. Also, when they blow, they tend to liberate some nasty
smelling toxic vapors, hydrogen sulfide gas or something. Never had the
pleasure....
Sonically, I remember that they were a lot smoother than silicons while
sounding pretty clean. Got the idea after replacing the seleniums in a
Marantz 1 PS with silicons and ruining the sound.
Technologically, these things are one step above liquid rectifiers, but I'd
be willing to give them another listen. Ya never know.
Joe
____
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Ways to make SS diodes sound better?
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 13:49:54 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n891
Joe Roberts wrote:
>
> Anybody got any hints on how to make solid state rectifiers sound
> better?
>
> I got a tip from Shishido a few years back on putting resistors in
> series with the diodes to "de-Q" the setup. Got a somewhat more relaxed
> sound with this technique (think I used 50 ohm ABs).
>
> How about diodes in choke input filters....does that help?
>
> Personally, I always thought the best way to improve the SS rectifier is
> to chuck it and replace with a tube.
>
> Back in the 80s when I was really crazy, I used NOS selenium rectifiers
> whenever I could. They don't sell these at radio shack anymo'. Anybody
> got any selenium full wavers in the junkbox?
>
> Working on some miniaturized stuff that requires 1N4004 sized
> rectifiers, so I'm interested.
>
> Joe
The sweetest SS rectifiers I've heard are cryo'ed HER105s. I haven't
heard them un-cryo'ed but I'm about to order some and see. Maybe Bill
Perkins can fix you up with some frozen ones. Adding carbon in series
with othere types does have a smoothing effect, I've found, especially
with UF400x types. 1N4xxx are hopeless to my ears--veiled and grungy.
- --
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
Visit my web site at http://home.att.net/~groverg/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
From: Grover Gardner <groverg@postoffice.att.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Ways to make SS diodes sound better?
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 15:58:24 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n891
"PEARL Cust. Service" wrote:
>
> Hi Grover
> I remember you writing about these before.
> Where can I buy 100 or so for some rational price?
> Do they come in "stout" versions like 1-1.5kPIV and 2-5A?
> Thanks
>
> Bill Perkins - PEARL, Inc.
>
Mouser stocks HER diodes of all types, you'll find what you need, like
HER508, 1KV/5A, 100 for $58. Maybe someone else has a better price, but
not everyone stocks these. At Mouser just do a product search for "her".
- --
Grover Gardner
groverg@postoffice.att.net
Visit my web site at http://home.att.net/~groverg/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
From: "John Levreault" <jlevro@mediaone.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] Ways to make SS diodes sound better?
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 16:56:12 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n891
- ---- Original Message -----
From: "PEARL Cust. Service" <custserv@pearl-hifi.com>
To: <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [JN] Ways to make SS diodes sound better?
> Hi Grover
> I remember you writing about these before.
> Where can I buy 100 or so for some rational price?
Mouser part number 583-HER105, $13.00/100pcs.
> Do they come in "stout" versions like 1-1.5kPIV and 2-5A?
> Thanks
Part number 583-HER108 is 1kV. They also have higher current versions.
www.mouser.com.
JL
web site at http://home.att.net/~groverg/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
From: Simon Busbridge <S.C.Busbridge@bton.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [JN] Ways to make SS diodes sound better?
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 18:04:33 +0100 (BST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n891
>I'm also interested in selenium rectifiers.. came across some old ones
>at a job once, but never used them. What are the general characteristics
>of these devices?
Hi Timo,
This is old technology, I think the first ss rectifiers were selenium.
You sometimes find them in old radios. Basically they are crap.
Although they have relatively high resistance their reverse leakage is
poor.
Simon
Simon Busbridge, BSc(Hons) PhD CPhys MInstP
School of Engineering
University of Brighton
Lewes Road
Moulsecoomb
Brighton BN2 4GJ
UNITED KINGDOM
Tel: 0044 (0)1273 642542
Fax: 0044 (0)1273 642327/642301
e-mail: s.c.busbridge@bton.ac.uk, scbusbridge@hotmail.com
Audio www site: http://audio.eng.bton.ac.uk
=========================================================================
From: Timo Christ <carnivor@uni-bremen.de>
Subject: Re: [JN] Ways to make SS diodes sound better?
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 18:23:12 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n891
Hello,
well, i have never used tube rectifiers, but i can describe how i use
solid state diodes. I usually use 100n cap in parallel with the diode
and i like to use a choke on the output of the rectifier. Put a small
cap from the output of the rectifier to ground to absorb the voltage
spike from choke input, otherwise it will kill the diodes (100n-1u).
That spike can be several kV, Duncan's PS designer shows it (the lower
the transformer's resistance the worse it is).
The choke does a fantastic job of attenuating the junk that the diode
emits when it switches off. Even only a couple mH are a worthwhile
improvement.
Fast/Soft recovery diodes and schottky diodes both work for me.
Preamp uses BYV 27/200, these are not the same package (SOT57) as 1N4004
but maybe they fit. BYV 29 series is used in several other applications
here but they are TO220.
I'm also interested in selenium rectifiers.. came across some old ones
at a job once, but never used them. What are the general characteristics
of these devices?
Regards
Timo
Joe Roberts wrote:
>
> Anybody got any hints on how to make solid state rectifiers sound
> better?
>
> I got a tip from Shishido a few years back on putting resistors in
> series with the diodes to "de-Q" the setup. Got a somewhat more relaxed
> sound with this technique (think I used 50 ohm ABs).
>
> How about diodes in choke input filters....does that help?
>
> Personally, I always thought the best way to improve the SS rectifier is
> to chuck it and replace with a tube.
>
> Back in the 80s when I was really crazy, I used NOS selenium rectifiers
> whenever I could. They don't sell these at radio shack anymo'. Anybody
> got any selenium full wavers in the junkbox?
>
> Working on some miniaturized stuff that requires 1N4004 sized
> rectifiers, so I'm interested.
>
> Joe
- --
/ /--' Timo Christ carnivore@uni-bremen.de
/ /<-. Electronics Engineering Student
__/ /__/ Horns 'r more fun:
' http://www-user.uni-bremen.de/~carnivor/
=========================================================================
From: Monophonic@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Ways to make SS diodes sound better?
Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 19:03:34 EDT
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n891
Joe,
A few years ago a tube magazine came out with an article on reducing diode
noise. You may have heard of it, Sound Practices. The fall 1994 issue page 39
by John Camille.
At Bottlehead.com forum they have lots of threads on Johns "snubber".
Anyone know where to get gallium arsenide (GaAs) rectifiers? Motorola stopped
making them a few years ago, MGR1018 (180v 10a), MGR1025 (250v 10a) on up to
800v. Supposed to be great, according to Harry Paller.
Bruce Nilson
=========================================================================
From: "P de R. Leclercq" <triode@freenetname.co.uk>
Subject: RE: [JN] Ways to make SS diodes sound better?
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 01:14:13 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n891
For my twopence-worth, I suggest BYW56 - avalanche diodes; I by-pass these
with 10nF caps. BYW56 is rated at 1kV and 3A.
Paul
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-sound@lists.io.com [mailto:owner-sound@lists.io.com]On
Behalf Of PEARL Cust. Service
Sent: 24 May 2001 11:43
To: sound@lists.io.com
Subject: Re: [JN] Ways to make SS diodes sound better?
Hi Grover
I remember you writing about these before.
Where can I buy 100 or so for some rational price?
Do they come in "stout" versions like 1-1.5kPIV and 2-5A?
Thanks
Bill Perkins - PEARL, Inc.
>
> The sweetest SS rectifiers I've heard are cryo'ed HER105s. I haven't
> heard them un-cryo'ed but I'm about to order some and see. Maybe Bill
> Perkins can fix you up with some frozen ones. Adding carbon in series
> with othere types does have a smoothing effect, I've found, especially
> with UF400x types. 1N4xxx are hopeless to my ears--veiled and grungy.
> --
> Grover Gardner
> groverg@postoffice.att.net
> Visit my web site at http://home.att.net/~groverg/homepage.htm
=========================================================================
From: Jonathan Carr <connlyra@gol.com>
Subject: [JN] Re: Ways to make SS diodes sound better?
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 04:32:10 +0900
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n891
Bill,
>>The sweetest SS rectifiers I've heard are cryo'ed HER105s.<
>Where can I buy 100 or so for some rational price?<
If these are the same devices that I have tried, they are
high-efficiency rectifiers made by (if I recall correctly) Diodes
Inc. Despite not being classified as a "fast" or "ultra-fast", their
reverse recovery time is fairly quick, and sonically they do offer
some of the benefits of fast-recovery types: they aren't as
transparent as a Schottky, and their transients are somewhat slower
and harder-sounding, but nonetheless the HERs are considerably
cleaner, less foggy and less grungy than most standard silicon
rectifiers.
The tonal balance is interesting for a silicon rectifier - rather
rich and weighty - they seem to have more of their energy in the
200Hz and below region than Schottkys or fast-recovery types. For
this reason, they are useful if you have to even out a circuit that
tends to have its tonal balance tipped upwards.
Other companies have similar rectifiers, which may be called either
high-efficiency or low-loss.
>Do they come in "stout" versions like 1-1.5kPIV and 2-5A?<
The catalog that I have only shows them going up to 600V (peak
reverse voltage), in the 1A and 3A size.
After the "HER", the next two digits are the amperage (10 is 1A, 15
is 1.5A, 30 is 3A, 60 is 6A), and the last digit represents the
voltage 9 1 is 50V, 2 is 100V, 3 is 200V, 4 is 300V, 5 is 400V, and 6
is 600V).
So Grover's HER105 is a 1A 400V part.
hth,
jonathan carr
=========================================================================
From: "Thomas Sylvester" <TRS@carlsmith.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Ways to make SS diodes sound better?
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 09:06:10 -1000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n892
think the best article on this was published in SP itself - it's the one by John Camille on reduci
ng diode noise. Camille also had some pointers in a couple of Cyber-VALVE articles. This is such a
n important issue that someone should try to gather whatever's been printed on the subject in a sin
gle place. I'll volunteer if you-all will send me pointers to whatever's on the web and electronic
ccs of whatever you've got - results will go onto the ftp site.
Regards, Tom Sylvester
>>> Joe Roberts <jroberts@io.com> 05/24/01 05:48AM >>>
Anybody got any hints on how to make solid state rectifiers sound
better?
I got a tip from Shishido a few years back on putting resistors in
series with the diodes to "de-Q" the setup. Got a somewhat more relaxed
sound with this technique (think I used 50 ohm ABs).
How about diodes in choke input filters....does that help?
Personally, I always thought the best way to improve the SS rectifier is
to chuck it and replace with a tube.
Back in the 80s when I was really crazy, I used NOS selenium rectifiers
whenever I could. They don't sell these at radio shack anymo'. Anybody
got any selenium full wavers in the junkbox?
Working on some miniaturized stuff that requires 1N4004 sized
rectifiers, so I'm interested.
Joe
=========================================================================
From: Remco Stoutjesdijk <remco@ultranalog.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] Ways to make SS diodes sound better?
Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 12:56:45 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n892
>Back in the 80s when I was really crazy, I used NOS selenium rectifiers
>whenever I could. They don't sell these at radio shack anymo'. Anybody
>got any selenium full wavers in the junkbox?
Eh? You're the first one I ever came across who actually likes these. I've often replaced selenium b
ridges with simple BYW95C (fast + soft recovery), with series R and parallel C and always noticed im
provement.
Well, anywho, send me your mailing address and you can have all the ones I didn't trash yet, for fre
e.
Regards,
Remco
- --
http://www.ultranalog.com
=========================================================================
From: Nicholas McKinney <nick@lambdacoustics.com>
Subject: [JN] WE 102D
Date: Sat, 05 Jun 1999 21:27:07 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n170
Anybody have any info on the WE 102D?
Thanks
Nick
=========================================================================
From: "Kurt Th. Steffensen" <kurt-steffensen@teliamail.dk>
Subject: Sv: [JN] WE 102D
Date: Sun, 6 Jun 1999 12:33:42 +0300
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n171
Hi Nick.
WE 102D is a small Voltage triode.
2,1V/1A filament
u 30. - and usually current below 1mA !
Max anodeVolts is 190V , and it was usually set up with 130-160V.
Rp is about 60KOm.
I have further data if you need.
- - Sincerely
=========================================================================
From: "Farwell-Clay" <wclay@mediaone.net>
Subject: [JN] WE11C and CD isolation
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 11:44:29 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n513
Hello all,
As a sidebar to the "digital" discussions, does anyone have any insight into
the use of the WE 111C repeat coils for CD player isolation? Schematics, if
not just straight forward? Experience? Voodoo testimonials?
Thanks!
Walter Clay
=========================================================================
From: "Phil Sieg" <psieg@nxs.net>
Subject: [JN] WE216A
Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 15:35:51 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n808
Anyone have or know where to find the data sheet(s) for the WE216A tennis
ball-type introduced in 1922?
=========================================================================
From: RALPH POWER <POWER.RALPH@epamail.epa.gov>
Subject: [JN] WE275A experiences
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1999 14:49:49 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n064
HI All,
Can anyone comment on the sound of the WE275A as a SE output tube,
say versus a 2A3 or 6B4G ?
TIA for any comment,
- Ralph
=========================================================================
From: Kurt Steffensen <solvin-aurum@get2net.dk>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE275A experiences
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1999 17:44:04 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n065
> Ralph wrote:
> HI All,
>
> > Can anyone comment on the sound of the WE275A as a SE output tube,
> > say versus a 2A3 or 6B4G ?
>
> Hi Ralph.
>
> I belive the WE275 is an outstanding triode.
> In is in the class of PX 4, RE 604,R120, AD 1, VT 52. etc.
>
> I have not heard the globe 275´s , but the later ones are usually the
> best versions,
> in my experience.
>
> Anyway the WE275A´s is clearly better than the 2A3,6A3,6B4G family.
>
> It might not be better than a good #45 , but the 275 has more "punch"
> and power.
>
> I do not know how it compares to the single plate 2A3´s , as I have
> never heard any
> of these.
>
> I strongly recommend the WE275A. It is in the best class of triodes.
>
> - Sincerely Kurt
=========================================================================
From: Ed Billeci <tube@teleport.com>
Subject: [JN] WE 300b date codes?
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 19:48:11 -0800
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n797
Hi guys, I am about to throw a couple WE 300B's up on ebay, and was
thinking about including the date of manufacture. (the last WE 300b only
went for $250, so maybe the date codes will help)
One of them has the code "913", and the other "939"
Can anyone help me out?
BTW, I still have the Chapman horns, and PM5's for sale....
Thanks for the help.
Ed
=========================================================================
From: TubeGarden@aol.com
Subject: Re: [JN] WE 300b date codes?
Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 23:15:22 EST
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n797
- --part1_80.658c4cf.27ab8e5a_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 2/1/01 9:03:03 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
tube@teleport.com writes:
> Can anyone help me out?
>
When dating WE 300B, it's OK to look at the pins on the first date, but no
plugging into sockets!
Happy Ears!
Al B^}
- --part1_80.658c4cf.27ab8e5a_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/1/01 9:0
3:03 PM US Mountain Standard Time,
<BR>tube@teleport.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px
; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Can anyone help me out?
<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR>
<BR>When dating WE 300B, it's OK to look at the pins on the first date, but no
<BR>plugging into sockets!
<BR>
<BR>Happy Ears!
<BR>Al B^}</FONT></HTML>
- --part1_80.658c4cf.27ab8e5a_boundary--
=========================================================================
From: Phil <tube@jump.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE 300b date codes?
Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:23:14 -0600
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n797
1949, the 13th week and the 39th week (1st and 3rd quarter of the year)
respectively. According to Sibley (Tube Lore), they used this Y-WW
code from the second quarter of '47 through '55. In '56 they and RCA
went to the YY-WW code, as in 56-13.
Phil
Ed Billeci wrote:
> Hi guys, I am about to throw a couple WE 300B's up on ebay, and was
> thinking about including the date of manufacture. (the last WE 300b only
> went for $250, so maybe the date codes will help)
>
> One of them has the code "913", and the other "939"
>
> Can anyone help me out?
>
> BTW, I still have the Chapman horns, and PM5's for sale....
>
> Thanks for the help.
> Ed
=========================================================================
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F8rn_Aaholm?= <boulevarden@get2net.dk>
Subject: [JN] WE304, 4304 and/or 834 data sheets anyone?
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:05:10 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n941
Hello.
Do any of you have data sheets on these equivalent tubes? I have
curves for the 834, but that's about it. Any data on these tubes are
very welcome!
If you can give me ANY information about the differences between the
different versions of 4304 (eg. BB and CB) I'd be very happy as well.
Thanks guys, you're the best!
Bjørn Aaholm
=========================================================================
From: "Chris Vryonides" <chrisvryonides@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE304, 4304 and/or 834 data sheets anyone?
Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 09:51:28 +0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n941
Hello there
http://www.r-type.org/exhib/aac0028.htm
says that the BB is a lower power version of the CB (carbon anode).
I've got some nice STC data for this one, with va/ia characteristic and grid
current, email me your number and I'll fax a copy over when I'm back in the
office next week.
Best,
Chris
- ----Original Message Follows----
From: Bjørn Aaholm <boulevarden@get2net.dk>
To: "Joe-Net" <sound@lists.io.com>
Subject: [JN] WE304, 4304 and/or 834 data sheets anyone?
Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 18:05:10 +0200
Hello.
Do any of you have data sheets on these equivalent tubes? I have
curves for the 834, but that's about it. Any data on these tubes are
very welcome!
If you can give me ANY information about the differences between the
different versions of 4304 (eg. BB and CB) I'd be very happy as well.
Thanks guys, you're the best!
Bjørn Aaholm
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
=========================================================================
From: "Sylvain Giguere" <pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca>
Subject: [JN] WE311B info
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:32:31 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n297
Message en plusieurs parties et au format MIME.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF131B.85A9B680
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi friends,
Got a few 311B made by Sylvania. These look cool with an electrode on =
top of the glass envelope. I can't find these in my RCA book, so, I =
imagine these were of the WE origin? any info on these? since I have =
them, I could use them for my learning projects... are these pentodes?
Also have a few "GB-408A" Sylvania Gold Brand, and some 407A (WE) any =
info about these?
Thanks in advance.
I actually work on the cabinets of my "big"ger Tannoys.. veneering the =
cabinets with cherry wood and rosewood.. should help to make the sound =
cool.. ;-) honnestly, I couldn't stand the ugly deteriorated cabinets =
around and they sound so good..
Sylvain
- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF131B.85A9B680
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Hi friends,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Got a few 311B made by Sylvania. These look =
cool with=20
an electrode on top of the glass envelope. I can't find these in my RCA =
book,=20
so, I imagine these were of the WE origin? any info on these? since I =
have them,=20
I could use them for my learning projects... are these =
pentodes?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Also have a few "GB-408A" Sylvania Gold Brand, and some =
407A (WE)=20
any info about these?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Thanks in advance.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I actually work on the cabinets of my "big"ger Tannoys..=20
veneering the cabinets with cherry wood and rosewood.. should help to =
make the=20
sound cool.. ;-) honnestly, I couldn't stand the ugly deteriorated =
cabinets=20
around and they sound so good..</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Sylvain</DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BF131B.85A9B680--
=========================================================================
From: David Barnett <davidbarnett@aristotle.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE311B info
Date: Sun, 10 Oct 1999 13:41:27 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n298
On Sun, 10 Oct 1999 12:32:31 -0400, "Sylvain Giguere"
<pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca> wrote:
>I actually work on the cabinets of my "big"ger Tannoys.. veneering the cabinets with cherry wood an
d rosewood.. should help to make the sound cool.. ;-) honnestly, I couldn't stand the ugly deteriora
ted cabinets around and they sound so good..
Ooh, cherry and rosewood, that sounds pretty. I would have figured
you for the "piano black" look, though... <G>
- --dnb
=========================================================================
From: "Carter Hendricks" <carter@i1.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE311B info
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 21:03:43 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n299
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BF142C.19C63580
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
311B Audio frequency pentode Eb 135 v Ib 30 mA,
but 10 v filament
408A pentode similar to 6AK5 but 20 v filament
407A triode similar to 396A / 2C51 but 20 v filament
from Bernard Magers, "75 Years of WE Tube=20
Manufacturing."
--Carter
=20
- ------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BF142C.19C63580
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>311B Audio frequency pentode Eb 135 =
v Ib 30=20
mA,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>but 10 v filament</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>408A pentode similar to 6AK5 but 20 =
v=20
filament</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>407A triode similar to 396A / 2C51 =
but 20 v=20
filament</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>from Bernard Magers, "75 Years =
of WE Tube=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Manufacturing."</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =
=20
- --Carter</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =
=
</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_00BF_01BF142C.19C63580--
=========================================================================
From: "Carter Hendricks" <carter@i1.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE311B info
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 1999 22:55:35 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n299
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_010E_01BF143B.BA794940
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
---Original Message-----
From: Sylvain Giguere <pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca>
To: Carter Hendricks <carter@i1.net>
Date: 11 October, 1999 9:46 PM
Subject: Re: [JN] WE311B info
=20
=20
Thanks for the info Carter.
=20
Then, does it mean that the 311B would be a power output tube?
=20
Sylvain
=20
OK-- there's a section in the -other- WE book,
"WE Tube Data," on the 311A / 329A. The tube
is described as an audio / RF power amplifier
where 2 watts is required and plate voltage is=20
not in excess of 180 volts. There's a nice table
of operating conditions which I would be happy=20
to copy and send to you.
=20
--Carter
- ------=_NextPart_000_010E_01BF143B.BA794940
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type><!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 =
HTML//EN">
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 solid 2px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-LEFT: =
5px">
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><B>---Original =
Message-----</B><BR><B>From:=20
</B>Sylvain Giguere <<A=20
=
href=3D"mailto:pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca">pagebleu@globetrotter.qc.ca</=
A>><BR><B>To:=20
</B>Carter Hendricks <<A=20
href=3D"mailto:carter@i1.net">carter@i1.net</A>><BR><B>Date: =
</B>11=20
October, 1999 9:46 PM<BR><B>Subject: </B>Re: [JN] WE311B=20
info<BR><BR></DIV></FONT>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Thanks for the info =
Carter.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Then, does it mean that the 311B =
would be a=20
power output tube?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Sylvain</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>OK-- there's a section in the -other- WE=20
book,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>"WE Tube Data," on the 311A / =
329A. The=20
tube</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>is described as an audio / RF power =
amplifier</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>where 2 watts is required and plate voltage is=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>not in excess of 180 volts. There's a nice =
table</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>of operating conditions which I would be happy=20
</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>to copy and send to you.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000=20
=
size=3D2> &nbs=
p;  =
; =
=20
<FONT =
color=3D#000000>--Carter</FONT></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_010E_01BF143B.BA794940--
=========================================================================
From: Rick Francis <rfrancis@glasscity.net>
Subject: [JN] WE 388A: Audio Treasure or Paperweight?
Date: Tue, 30 Mar 1999 13:47:59 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n102
Joes, I came across this tube, and had to have it because it looked
cool. It's about 3 inches in diameter. You can see pictures at:
http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE388A-1.jpg
http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE388A-2.jpg
http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE388A-3.jpg
http://www.glasscity.net/users/rfrancis/WE388A-4.jpg
(Yeah, the guy gets a digital camera and can't put it down.) Anyone got
a use for this tube? I've never seen how you mount a tube like this...
If it's just a novelty item, I'd just as soon send it off before I break
it.
Best,
Rick
=========================================================================
From: "Carter Hendricks" <carter@i1.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE412 pinout anyone?
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 22:16:13 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n317
- -----Original Message-----
From: J. Gordon Rankin <waudio@cinti.net>
To: Sound Practices MAIL LIST <sound@lists.io.com>
Date: 27 October, 1999 4:46 PM
Subject: [JN] WE412 pinout anyone?
>Anyone have the pinout for the 412 Western Rectifier?
WE 412A
1 P2
2 NC
3 K2
4 H
5 H
6 NC
7 K1
8 NC
9 P1
=========================================================================
From: "J. Gordon Rankin" <waudio@cinti.net>
Subject: [JN] WE412 pinout anyone?
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 99 17:30:33 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n317
Gang,
Anyone have the pinout for the 412 Western Rectifier?
Thanks
Gordon
=======> Wavelength Audio <=======
mailto:waudio@cinti.net
http://www.WavelengthAudio.com
ph.fx. 513-271-4186 USA
=========================================================================
From: Phil <tube@jump.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 19:16:45 -0500
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n907
Paul,
Tube Lore says,
It's a planar triode, meant for operation at 4 GHz. A & B versions
are mu 200, gm 50 mS. The B version is uprated to 7.5 W, although
it doesn't say what the A version is rated for. Both are forced-air
cooled, and I know someone else said that without the cooling, they
die immediately when run at full power.
Benard Magers' book adds that the 416B was run at 200V, 30 mA.
Phil
Paul De Raymond Leclercq wrote:
> Hello everybody.
>
> I have spent about an hour and a half on the net trying to find a
> specification for this device - does anyone have the information?
>
> I have a paper detailing its development with some data, but I would like
> more complete information if possible.
>
> Thank you for the bandwidth!
>
> Paul
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (dave slagle)
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2001 20:11:48 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n907
hey paul...
i think jim dekort has the data on vt-52.com
i tried to use thes tubes once but two of the samaples i had didn't behave
as expected and i cooked the third one... couldn't get any current through
them with "normal audio operation" so the gm was down..., time got short,
and all was abandoned on that exploration, but choke loaded with a 100hy
choke and a gain of 200... seems like gravy to me... might be a small
signal dream... just gotta figure out how to turn them on... or need some
poor sap to figure their class a usage out for us...
dave
=========================================================================
From: "Paul De Raymond Leclercq" <Pderl@btinternet.com>
Subject: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:56:30 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n907
Hello everybody.
I have spent about an hour and a half on the net trying to find a
specification for this device - does anyone have the information?
I have a paper detailing its development with some data, but I would like
more complete information if possible.
Thank you for the bandwidth!
Paul
=========================================================================
From: Allen Wright <AllenVSE@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 06:18:52 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n907
Chris wrote:
>>>...and as Allen W. mentioned, will almost certainly be
microphonic as hell<<<
Hey, please don't misquote me. I've never ever said planar triodes are
microphonic - I have some here but I've never tried them so I just don't
know.
I would _think_ they should _not_ be microphonic as the structure is so
rigid, but thinking is just that, thinking...
But I'm certainly on record as saying VHF/UHF tubes will oscillate given
the slightest opportunity - and a 4GHz tube sounds like it would be a
R-E-A-L handful in anything but the designed socket and real UHF stripline
layout, and even then maybe not too easy.
But don't let that stop you thrill seakers checking them out, as I know it
won't.
What I do know from ongoing experiments is that opamps - any opamp - are
poison in an audio path. So I will stand up and make a strong point:
All of you tube lovers arguing over the various merits of mesh plate or not
mesh plate etc etc etc - but driving your tweaked to extreme amps with a CD
player using even one opamp (and most use more) - are just pissing in the
wind if you think you are getting the best out of your system.
Pull them like rotten teeth and experience some music!
Allen (VSE)
PS Hey Dave Slagle, cool on your offer of a trick PS for the Arhus event -
but why not come yourself? It costs almost nothing to fly NYC to Europe and
the whole event is just a wonderful experience! And even photogs are
allowed a vacation once in a while...
=========================================================================
From: "Chris Vryonides" <chrisvryonides@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 08:43:54 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n907
Hey Paul
I'm having trouble accessing a lot of the data on Jim's site. Thankfully,
the WE416 datasheet was one I downloaded earlier. I'll dig it out for you
this evening.
Unfortunately, no curves, but it has the pinout and some specs, and a
history of the development (sounds like what you have).
As for a socket, well, I think it's a case of soldering to the pins (pins
being pins, gold plated case, and top thingy...). I suspect this thing will
love to oscillate at GHz frequencies, and as Allen W. mentioned, will almost
certainly be microphonic as hell.
Even better, I have a few of them which I won't get round to playing with
for a while, so if you want to have a go...
No surprise that slagle's already been there...think I'm gonna have to start
building my own valves to compete. Although someone mentioned travelling
wave tubes the other day...
Cheers
Chris
- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Paul De Raymond Leclercq" <Pderl@btinternet.com>
To: "Sound" <sound@lists.io.com>
Subject: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:56:30 -0700
Hello everybody.
I have spent about an hour and a half on the net trying to find a
specification for this device - does anyone have the information?
I have a paper detailing its development with some data, but I would like
more complete information if possible.
Thank you for the bandwidth!
Paul
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=========================================================================
From: "Chris Vryonides" <chrisvryonides@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 11:27:01 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n907
Apologies Allen for that.
Anyway, hopefully Paul will fire them up and have a definitive answer on how
they sound soon.
Cheers
Chris
- ----Original Message Follows----
From: Allen Wright <AllenVSE@compuserve.com>
To: AAJoeNet <sound@lists.io.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 06:18:52 -0400
Chris wrote:
>>>...and as Allen W. mentioned, will almost certainly be
microphonic as hell<<<
Hey, please don't misquote me. I've never ever said planar triodes are
microphonic - I have some here but I've never tried them so I just don't
know.
I would _think_ they should _not_ be microphonic as the structure is so
rigid, but thinking is just that, thinking...
But I'm certainly on record as saying VHF/UHF tubes will oscillate given
the slightest opportunity - and a 4GHz tube sounds like it would be a
R-E-A-L handful in anything but the designed socket and real UHF stripline
layout, and even then maybe not too easy.
But don't let that stop you thrill seakers checking them out, as I know it
won't.
What I do know from ongoing experiments is that opamps - any opamp - are
poison in an audio path. So I will stand up and make a strong point:
All of you tube lovers arguing over the various merits of mesh plate or not
mesh plate etc etc etc - but driving your tweaked to extreme amps with a CD
player using even one opamp (and most use more) - are just pissing in the
wind if you think you are getting the best out of your system.
Pull them like rotten teeth and experience some music!
Allen (VSE)
PS Hey Dave Slagle, cool on your offer of a trick PS for the Arhus event -
but why not come yourself? It costs almost nothing to fly NYC to Europe and
the whole event is just a wonderful experience! And even photogs are
allowed a vacation once in a while...
_________________________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
From: "Chris Vryonides" <chrisvryonides@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:43:05 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n907
Thinking phono (gm = 65 mA/V, high mu) rather than spud amp. I doubt 0.6W
would work on my 83 db/W speakers.
Actually, I was thinking of maybe using it as an all-in-one
input/driver/phase splitter tx coupled to PP 845, given Dave Slagle's report
on the tube, I have serious doubts.
Anyone ever try E810F/7788 PP, via a 1:2 PP interstage for driving PP 845?
Cheers
Chris
- ----Original Message Follows----
From: Jim de Kort <jim@vt52.com>
To: "Chris Vryonides" <chrisvryonides@hotmail.com>
CC: sound@lists.io.com
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:07:03 +0200
HI,
>Anyway, hopefully Paul will fire them up and have a definitive answer on
>how they sound soon.
The 3K9 impedance will make it hard to get any decent power out of it
(efficiency), I get a max of 0.6W using a 10K, or 2W with a 3K9 (nah)
primary. Wouldn´t a 5842 or something similar be easier to use? The high mu
of 250 only means the input can be lower, but that is about all the
advantage that I can see with this tube. Rp is just too high..
Jim de Kort
jim@vt52.com
http://www.vt52.com
http://www.ux226.com
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
=========================================================================
From: Jim de Kort <jim@vt52.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:07:03 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n907
HI,
>Anyway, hopefully Paul will fire them up and have a definitive answer on
>how they sound soon.
The 3K9 impedance will make it hard to get any decent power out of it
(efficiency), I get a max of 0.6W using a 10K, or 2W with a 3K9 (nah)
primary. Wouldn´t a 5842 or something similar be easier to use? The high mu
of 250 only means the input can be lower, but that is about all the
advantage that I can see with this tube. Rp is just too high..
Jim de Kort
jim@vt52.com
http://www.vt52.com
http://www.ux226.com
=========================================================================
From: "Paul De Raymond Leclercq" <Pderl@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:33:30 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n907
Hello Chris, everybody.
Ah yes the attractive E810F!
You should run about 25mA through it (Pa is 5W) but Ca-g is high so Miller
may be a problem - short leads I suppose!. The transformer will take care
of the Va limits on the E810F so I suppose it would be quite good, but if
you are using a transformer, why bother with the expense of E810F and its
capacitance?
Why not tyry something different? 6J4s are peanuts and (I think) sound nice;
I have not had the microphony problems that others have mentioned. For more
gain, try 6AN4 - mu is 70 Ca-g 1.5pf and gm 10. Choose your operasitng
point carefully though; it's not that linear.
6AM4 offers mu of 85; there are plenty of reasonably cheap triodes
available.
Finally, if you want to use a pentode triode-strapped and have loads of gm,
then D3A is the one. This has mu of over 70, Ca-g (as a triode) of 2..7pf
(compared with about 5 for E810F) and will give you over 25mA/V at only
10mA! Pa is about 4W.
I had a pair of 100% Telefunkens on ebay recently; not a single bid!
Regards
Paul
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Vryonides <chrisvryonides@hotmail.com>
To: <jim@vt52.com>
Cc: <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Thinking phono (gm = 65 mA/V, high mu) rather than spud amp. I doubt 0.6W
would work on my 83 db/W speakers.
Actually, I was thinking of maybe using it as an all-in-one
input/driver/phase splitter tx coupled to PP 845, given Dave Slagle's report
on the tube, I have serious doubts.
Anyone ever try E810F/7788 PP, via a 1:2 PP interstage for driving PP 845?
Cheers
Chris
- ----Original Message Follows----
From: Jim de Kort <jim@vt52.com>
To: "Chris Vryonides" <chrisvryonides@hotmail.com>
CC: sound@lists.io.com
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:07:03 +0200
HI,
>Anyway, hopefully Paul will fire them up and have a definitive answer on
>how they sound soon.
The 3K9 impedance will make it hard to get any decent power out of it
(efficiency), I get a max of 0.6W using a 10K, or 2W with a 3K9 (nah)
primary. Wouldn´t a 5842 or something similar be easier to use? The high mu
of 250 only means the input can be lower, but that is about all the
advantage that I can see with this tube. Rp is just too high..
Jim de Kort
jim@vt52.com
http://www.vt52.com
http://www.ux226.com
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
=========================================================================
From: Eric Kingsbury <ekingsbu@hawaii.edu>
Subject: RE: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 10:00:16 -1000 (HST)
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n908
Stephen sez,
>
> One strong point deserves another:
>
> Op amps are poison even in a PSU reg esp if it is the error amp. The PSU is
> in the audio path too. The PSU signature will have the signature of the
> error amp (if its got one). Nothing is sonically innocuous.
What about as a servo to zero the output voltage? Will they be more groto
than the good-sized cap they replace?
Poinz
=========================================================================
From: "Paul De Raymond Leclercq" <Pderl@btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:10:25 -0700
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n908
Hello Jim.
No, I am not seeking power from this device; just voltage amplification.
I was told that your site has data for this type, but I was unable to
download any of the tube data; it suggested that I was not authorised to
access the data.
I enjoyed the pictures of the rarae valves very much!
Thanks
Paul Leclercq
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Jim de Kort <jim@vt52.com>
To: Chris Vryonides <chrisvryonides@hotmail.com>
Cc: <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 5:07 AM
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
HI,
>Anyway, hopefully Paul will fire them up and have a definitive answer on
>how they sound soon.
The 3K9 impedance will make it hard to get any decent power out of it
(efficiency), I get a max of 0.6W using a 10K, or 2W with a 3K9 (nah)
primary. Wouldn´t a 5842 or something similar be easier to use? The high mu
of 250 only means the input can be lower, but that is about all the
advantage that I can see with this tube. Rp is just too high..
Jim de Kort
jim@vt52.com
http://www.vt52.com
http://www.ux226.com
=========================================================================
From: "Chris Vryonides" <chrisvryonides@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:19:58 -0000
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n908
Hi Paul
I gather that the E810F triode connected is dead linear, that plus the 400V
pp drive requirement (with 1:2 step-up), and the fact that this gets me 1.4V
rms input sensitivity, which is plenty for the rest of my setup. The input
capacitance won't be a problem.
Plus, I already have a few...
The D3A looks interesting, but the somewhat blurry triode curves for it
don't look as promising as some of the distortion specs I've come across for
the E810F.
Speaking of which, any one have triode curves for the E810F/7788? I looked
through the archive and found many instances of the same question, but
couldn't find any of the graphs.
Cheers
Chris
- ----Original Message Follows----
From: "Paul De Raymond Leclercq" <Pderl@btinternet.com>
To: "Chris Vryonides" <chrisvryonides@hotmail.com>, <jim@vt52.com>
CC: <sound@lists.io.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:33:30 -0700
Hello Chris, everybody.
Ah yes the attractive E810F!
You should run about 25mA through it (Pa is 5W) but Ca-g is high so Miller
may be a problem - short leads I suppose!. The transformer will take care
of the Va limits on the E810F so I suppose it would be quite good, but if
you are using a transformer, why bother with the expense of E810F and its
capacitance?
Why not tyry something different? 6J4s are peanuts and (I think) sound nice;
I have not had the microphony problems that others have mentioned. For more
gain, try 6AN4 - mu is 70 Ca-g 1.5pf and gm 10. Choose your operasitng
point carefully though; it's not that linear.
6AM4 offers mu of 85; there are plenty of reasonably cheap triodes
available.
Finally, if you want to use a pentode triode-strapped and have loads of gm,
then D3A is the one. This has mu of over 70, Ca-g (as a triode) of 2..7pf
(compared with about 5 for E810F) and will give you over 25mA/V at only
10mA! Pa is about 4W.
I had a pair of 100% Telefunkens on ebay recently; not a single bid!
Regards
Paul
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Vryonides <chrisvryonides@hotmail.com>
To: <jim@vt52.com>
Cc: <sound@lists.io.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 5:43 AM
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Thinking phono (gm = 65 mA/V, high mu) rather than spud amp. I doubt 0.6W
would work on my 83 db/W speakers.
Actually, I was thinking of maybe using it as an all-in-one
input/driver/phase splitter tx coupled to PP 845, given Dave Slagle's report
on the tube, I have serious doubts.
Anyone ever try E810F/7788 PP, via a 1:2 PP interstage for driving PP 845?
Cheers
Chris
- ----Original Message Follows----
From: Jim de Kort <jim@vt52.com>
To: "Chris Vryonides" <chrisvryonides@hotmail.com>
CC: sound@lists.io.com
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:07:03 +0200
HI,
>Anyway, hopefully Paul will fire them up and have a definitive answer on
>how they sound soon.
The 3K9 impedance will make it hard to get any decent power out of it
(efficiency), I get a max of 0.6W using a 10K, or 2W with a 3K9 (nah)
primary. Wouldn´t a 5842 or something similar be easier to use? The high mu
of 250 only means the input can be lower, but that is about all the
advantage that I can see with this tube. Rp is just too high..
Jim de Kort
jim@vt52.com
http://www.vt52.com
http://www.ux226.com
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
_________________________________________________________________________
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=========================================================================
From: Stephen Robinson <Stephen.Robinson@dataflex.com>
Subject: RE: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:36:23 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n908
>
> What I do know from ongoing experiments is that opamps - any
> opamp - are
> poison in an audio path. So I will stand up and make a strong point:
>
> All of you tube lovers arguing over the various merits of
> mesh plate or not
> mesh plate etc etc etc - but driving your tweaked to extreme
> amps with a CD
> player using even one opamp (and most use more) - are just
> pissing in the
> wind if you think you are getting the best out of your system.
>
> Pull them like rotten teeth and experience some music!
>
One strong point deserves another:
Op amps are poison even in a PSU reg esp if it is the error amp. The PSU is
in the audio path too. The PSU signature will have the signature of the
error amp (if its got one). Nothing is sonically innocuous.
regards,
Stephen Robinson
em@il: stephen@izzy-wizzy.com
www: www.izzy-wizzy.com/audio
=========================================================================
From: dslagle@earthlink.net (dave slagle)
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:19:41 -0400
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n908
hey paul,
i don't have the data on my hard drive... must have lost it in a crash...
jims site does appear to be down... i'm sure it will be up soon
keep us informed about your progress with these little beasts.
dave
=========================================================================
From: evaguido <EvaGuido@iaehv.nl>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 19:45:17 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n908
>Speaking of which, any one have triode curves for the E810F/7788? I looked
>through the archive and found many instances of the same question, but
>couldn't find any of the graphs.
Look here:
http://frank.nostalgiaair.org/sheets/030/e/E810F.pdf (page 10)
Enjoy the graphs.....
Guido
>Cheers
>Chris
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: "Paul De Raymond Leclercq" <Pderl@btinternet.com>
>To: "Chris Vryonides" <chrisvryonides@hotmail.com>, <jim@vt52.com>
>CC: <sound@lists.io.com>
>Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:33:30 -0700
>
>Hello Chris, everybody.
>
>Ah yes the attractive E810F!
>
>You should run about 25mA through it (Pa is 5W) but Ca-g is high so Miller
>may be a problem - short leads I suppose!. The transformer will take care
>of the Va limits on the E810F so I suppose it would be quite good, but if
>you are using a transformer, why bother with the expense of E810F and its
>capacitance?
>
>Why not tyry something different? 6J4s are peanuts and (I think) sound nice;
>I have not had the microphony problems that others have mentioned. For more
>gain, try 6AN4 - mu is 70 Ca-g 1.5pf and gm 10. Choose your operasitng
>point carefully though; it's not that linear.
>
>6AM4 offers mu of 85; there are plenty of reasonably cheap triodes
>available.
>
>Finally, if you want to use a pentode triode-strapped and have loads of gm,
>then D3A is the one. This has mu of over 70, Ca-g (as a triode) of 2..7pf
>(compared with about 5 for E810F) and will give you over 25mA/V at only
>10mA! Pa is about 4W.
>
>I had a pair of 100% Telefunkens on ebay recently; not a single bid!
>
>Regards
>
>Paul
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Chris Vryonides <chrisvryonides@hotmail.com>
>To: <jim@vt52.com>
>Cc: <sound@lists.io.com>
>Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2001 5:43 AM
>Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
>
>
>Thinking phono (gm = 65 mA/V, high mu) rather than spud amp. I doubt 0.6W
>would work on my 83 db/W speakers.
>
>Actually, I was thinking of maybe using it as an all-in-one
>input/driver/phase splitter tx coupled to PP 845, given Dave Slagle's report
>on the tube, I have serious doubts.
>
>Anyone ever try E810F/7788 PP, via a 1:2 PP interstage for driving PP 845?
>
>Cheers
>Chris
>
>
>
>----Original Message Follows----
>From: Jim de Kort <jim@vt52.com>
>To: "Chris Vryonides" <chrisvryonides@hotmail.com>
>CC: sound@lists.io.com
>Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
>Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 14:07:03 +0200
>
>HI,
>
> >Anyway, hopefully Paul will fire them up and have a definitive answer on
> >how they sound soon.
>
>The 3K9 impedance will make it hard to get any decent power out of it
>(efficiency), I get a max of 0.6W using a 10K, or 2W with a 3K9 (nah)
>primary. Wouldn´t a 5842 or something similar be easier to use? The high mu
>of 250 only means the input can be lower, but that is about all the
>advantage that I can see with this tube. Rp is just too high..
>
>
>
>
>Jim de Kort
>jim@vt52.com
>
>http://www.vt52.com
>http://www.ux226.com
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
>
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
=========================================================================
From: Jim de Kort <jim@vt52.com>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:45:18 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n908
Hello,
>No, I am not seeking power from this device; just voltage amplification.
>
>I was told that your site has data for this type, but I was unable to
>download any of the tube data; it suggested that I was not authorised to
>access the data.
Yes, I'm having problems with my ftp server... I'm putting everything in
the normal http area so it will all be up soon...
Regards,
Jim de Kort
jim@vt52.com
Visit www.VT52.com for tube
DIY projects and datasheets
=========================================================================
From: longrie@mmace.nrl.navy.mil
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b the best there ever was
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:25:38 +0100
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n908
Hi Paul,
I have about 20 or so references relating to that device and
to planars. Do you still have that index I sent you? It's
easy enough to pipe over just the short section on planars
and you can make some selections. I'd be happy to send them
to you.
On the 416 it will be important to observe filament ratings.
It is easy to burn this thing up. One of the variations had
an unusual filament voltage so be wary. Good heat sinking
might be in order. The anode thread is .75-40 american. It's
an unusual thread but I found a tap for it a while back by
searching. In choosing a heat sink for the 416. The Wakefield
680 series has some undrilled versions. This makes a
beautiful aesthetic match for the 416. The black anodizing in
contrast with the gold plating and the creamy beryllium color.
One heat sink pins up and the other pins down with insulating
teflon standoffs between. You will see how this fits together.
In conventional usage, AT&T ran the thing just under 4 ghz.
It was used in the first trans continental radio relay link
in the US. It carried something like 19,000 simultaneous
voice conversations for the Bell system, starting in the late 50's.
Internally, the triode structure still has gain all the way out
to 6 ghz. Peak performance is right around 4 ghz though. At that
frequency you don't just attach wires. In service, the 416 had
a waveguide input and a waveguide output.
I would expect the 416 to be nonlinear in the conventional audio
sense of the word. On the other hand, the transconductance is
so exceedingly high that maybe one can work with a faint source
signal. Phono preamp perhaps? I don't know. It is also possible,
again because of the high transconductance, that this tube will
be very very quiet. Don't know.
It is my opinion that the WE416 is the best tube ever built, with
the other possible candidate being the WE455. I have heard, but
cannot substantiate, that it cost AT&T $3500 to build each 416.
When you look at the structure inside you can understand why.
The cathode, grid, and anode structures are spaced so exactly that
they required optical lapping of the spacers down to micrometer
accuracy. The rivets holding this assembly together are pure
saphire with the exactly correct temperature coefficient of expansion.
The grid structure is so fine that WE put out an ad bragging
about it. They showed a photospectrograph that they took using the
grid as the optical diffraction grating. Et cetera, the fine
features go on with this tube.
Paul, now you have got me started again on the 416. Now I will
have to get out the parts and make some progress on this. Do
let me know if you want some further papers.
best regards
gary
At 12:56 AM 6/12/01 -0700, you wrote:
>Hello everybody.
>
>I have spent about an hour and a half on the net trying to find a
>specification for this device - does anyone have the information?
>
>I have a paper detailing its development with some data, but I would like
>more complete information if possible.
>
>Thank you for the bandwidth!
>
>Paul
>
>
>
"Men wanted for hazardous journey, small wages, bitter cold,
long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return
doubtful. Honour and recognition in case of success."
----- Sir Ernest Shackleton
=========================================================================
From: Christian Rintelen <christian@rintelen.ch>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b the best there ever was
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 20:09:27 +0200
Source: Sound Digest Archive v02.n908
There are a number of other quite nice ceramic planar tubes around - the 7768
e.g. has a mu of 225, gm=50 mA/V and Rp 4k5, plate dissipation is 5.5 Watts
<http://www.duncanamps.co.uk/cgi-bin/tdsl3.exe/show?SID=0002AC5CF3D2A2C1&DES=7768>
Kurt Steffensen sez it's very hard to find a sweet spot as operating point.
Otherwise, how about a tube with an overall length of .875" and a diameter of
.753" driving an 845? ;-).
The first ceramic planar triode was the 6bY4, released in 1955 by GE. A nice
one was the 7077 which powered the radio transmitter of the Pioneer IV probe
on its way to the sun launched in March 1959 (very interesting:
<http://www.nasm.edu/galleries/attm/nojs/fs.ue.p4.1.html>. The probe
transmitted until it was 654,900 kilometers (407,000 miles) from earth, then
the batteries died. The above site shows a nice picture of the Pioneer IV's
transmitting unit. The 7077 was later replaced by the 7462 which is basically
the same tube but has pins to solder the small tube onto a PCB. The spacing
of the 7462 pins is so odd that it doesn't fit into any pcb holes (on one
axis the pin spacing is .2" and they're .1" wide, but on the other plane, the
pins are spaced .105". Yup, that's .105" between plate, grid, cathode and the
two heater pins!) A number of other ceramic planar triodes followed, and in
1997, MPD was still producing "a large number of
micro-miniature-metal-ceramic tubes and microwave circuit modules each year"
in an old GE factory in Kentucky (quoted from "the old timer's bulletin,
issue november 1997).
Except for the 7077, the more useable ones (for audio use) are pretty hard to
find. And they *are* expensive (except for the WE 416...)
"Electronic Industries" in its April 1959 issue wrote: "Although the 7077 was
designed primarily for UHF service, its low-noise properties make it suitable
for lower frequency operations where tube noise is a critical factor."
(Manfred, do you care to comment?!? ;-)
Christian
(Who just loves these tiny tubes that don't glow... ;-)
longrie@mmace.nrl.navy.mil wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> I have about 20 or so references relating to that device and
> to planars. Do you still have that index I sent you? It's
> easy enough to pipe over just the short section on planars
> and you can make some selections. I'd be happy to send them
> to you.
>
> On the 416 it will be important to observe filament ratings.
> It is easy to burn this thing up. One of the variations had
> an unusual filament voltage so be wary. Good heat sinking
> might be in order. The anode thread is .75-40 american. It's
> an unusual thread but I found a tap for it a while back by
> searching. In choosing a heat sink for the 416. The Wakefield
> 680 series has some undrilled versions. This makes a
> beautiful aesthetic match for the 416. The black anodizing in
> contrast with the gold plating and the creamy beryllium color.
> One heat sink pins up and the other pins down with insulating
> teflon standoffs between. You will see how this fits together.
>
> In conventional usage, AT&T ran the thing just under 4 ghz.
> It was used in the first trans continental radio relay link
> in the US. It carried something like 19,000 simultaneous
> voice conversations for the Bell system, starting in the late 50's.
> Internally, the triode structure still has gain all the way out
> to 6 ghz. Peak performance is right around 4 ghz though. At that
> frequency you don't just attach wires. In service, the 416 had
> a waveguide input and a waveguide output.
>
> I would expect the 416 to be nonlinear in the conventional audio
> sense of the word. On the other hand, the transconductance is
> so exceedingly high that maybe one can work with a faint source
> signal. Phono preamp perhaps? I don't know. It is also possible,
> again because of the high transconductance, that this tube will
> be very very quiet. Don't know.
>
> It is my opinion that the WE416 is the best tube ever built, with
> the other possible candidate being the WE455. I have heard, but
> cannot substantiate, that it cost AT&T $3500 to build each 416.
> When you look at the structure inside you can understand why.
> The cathode, grid, and anode structures are spaced so exactly that
> they required optical lapping of the spacers down to micrometer
> accuracy. The rivets holding this assembly together are pure
> saphire with the exactly correct temperature coefficient of expansion.
> The grid structure is so fine that WE put out an ad bragging
> about it. They showed a photospectrograph that they took using the
> grid as the optical diffraction grating. Et cetera, the fine
> features go on with this tube.
>
> Paul, now you have got me started again on the 416. Now I will
> have to get out the parts and make some progress on this. Do
> let me know if you want some further papers.
>
> best regards
>
> gary
>
> At 12:56 AM 6/12/01 -0700, you wrote:
> >Hello everybody.
> >
> >I have spent about an hour and a half on the net trying to find a
> >specification for this device - does anyone have the information?
> >
> >I have a paper detailing its development with some data, but I would like
> >more complete information if possible.
> >
> >Thank you for the bandwidth!
> >
> >Paul
> >
> >
> >
>
> "Men wanted for hazardous journey, small wages, bitter cold,
> long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return
> doubtful. Honour and recognition in case of success."
> ----- Sir Ernest Shackleton
- --
Konzept und Text: Christian Rintelen
Dufourstrasse 165 - CH-8008 Zurich - Switzerland
Voice: +41 1 420 11 55 - Fax: +41 1 420 11 57
mailto:christian@rintelen.ch
=========================================================================
From: Phil <tube@jump.net>
Subject: Re: [JN] WE416a/b the best there ever was
Da